The purpose of life

[Stevil]

Do you see the actual wavelengths (crests and troughs as it moves through the air) when you see color?  No you see its effect on the atmosphere, and this anomaly you could not describe to someone through science, but only to show them.

You asked me to describe the colour blue, not to explain how the human brain interprets the colour blue when observed via the eye.
It would be pointless to describe to a person who has been blind all their life. I could use analogies of heat, texture or sound but they would have to be really keen to want me to go down that track.

Please tell me how this relates to any point that you are trying to make?

This is the point I was trying to make, how can you tell someone to go find their own meaning, when there is no such thing as meaning in the first place.

Please define "meaning"

By saying people can individually find meaning in meaningless things (pleasure, food, people, etc.) isn't that lying if there is no meaning?

Who has said people can individually find meaning? Who says there is no meaning? Please define meaning.

...also you mention lying as if you are basing your statement on objective truth, for if there were no such thing as objective truth, then there is no such thing as lying

Are you taking drugs?

[LegendarySandwich]

I've found that almost all of Defendor's posts contain equivocation. He keeps saying that we say there is no meaning, while that isn't true -- we're saying that there isn't any objective meaning. We're operating on two different definitions here.

Defendor, I'd appreciate it if you could use the definition of meaning that Whitney has provided above for the purpose of the debate.

And, Defendor -- what if you're wrong, and in reality invisible pink unicorns exist that will chop off your head if you don't believe in them? I choose to believe in them, for I'm right and they exist, then my head will continue to be connected to my neck; but if I'm wrong, I'll have lost nothing.

[defendor]

We live in a world where little green men don't fly down in silver saucers and abduct rednecks so that they can be anally probed for 'research'....yet many a movie has come up with that idea and many a gullible person has believed it is true.

the question of God was before movies, some gullible people believe there is no God (now it depends on which perspective you are willing to take, for if this were all subjective, then they are just as 'right' as you are)

The universe is a closed system, not just the earth

define meaning - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meaning

Sorry tank, I didn't mean to dis value the code of ethics of the board, I do apologize

[defendor]

I've found that almost all of Defendor's posts contain equivocation. He keeps saying that we say there is no meaning, while that isn't true -- we're saying that there isn't any objective meaning. We're operating on two different definitions here.

Defendor, I'd appreciate it if you could use the definition of meaning that Whitney has provided above for the purpose of the debate.

I thought I have been, but doesn't that statement that there is no "objective meaning, hold objective value?

And, Defendor -- what if you're wrong, and in reality invisible pink unicorns exist that will chop off your head if you don't believe in them? I choose to believe in them, for I'm right and they exist, then my head will continue to be connected to my neck; but if I'm wrong, I'll have lost nothing.

Then you're not atheist then

[LegendarySandwich]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Defendor, you're just spouting off theological psychobabble about meaning and subjectivity.

There is (probably) no objective meaning to anything in the universe

.

assuming this is an objective truth

Your point?

Life is (probably) a product of random chance.

more unlikely than probably

No.

Our brains have evolved to see meaning in things for better survival.

That would be an objective truth, so if it is survival of the fittest, why do you pretend to play with morality? wheres the innate struggle for dominance?

...What?

The "meaning" we see is a result of chemical reactions in our brain. There's nothing metaphysical about it. It's simply matter.

if it is just matter and a matter of science, what is the scientific formula for purpose for anything?

There is none, as it's subjective.

Why do you exist?

Non-sequitor.

if its chance then why do you care about anything (cuz isn't it all worthless with no intrinsic value)?

Why shouldn't I?

[LegendarySandwich]

We live in a world where little green men don't fly down in silver saucers and abduct rednecks so that they can be anally probed for 'research'....yet many a movie has come up with that idea and many a gullible person has believed it is true.

the question of God was before movies, some gullible people believe there is no God (now it depends on which perspective you are willing to take, for if this were all subjective, then they are just as 'right' as you are)

Who tricked me into believing there's no god, if I'm so gullible?

The universe is a closed system, not just the earth

How do you know?

define meaning - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meaning

And yet, you keep using it as if it has to be objective.

[LegendarySandwich]

Also, you keep saying things as if we believe that there's no objective truth, when I've told you many times now that I, and most likely the majority of other users here, believe in objective truth. Meaning is not the same as facts.

[Whitney]

We live in a world where little green men don't fly down in silver saucers and abduct rednecks so that they can be anally probed for 'research'....yet many a movie has come up with that idea and many a gullible person has believed it is true.

the question of God was before movies, some gullible people believe there is no God (now it depends on which perspective you are willing to take, for if this were all subjective, then they are just as 'right' as you are)

  why can't you understand such simple concepts; my point really had nothing to do with when movies started nor who you think is gullible

let me put this simply.  

People are able to make shit up and people will believe that shit.

It doesn't matter if the shit is real or not...god doesn't have to exist in order for people to make up the idea and believe in it.  Invisible Pink Unicorns don't have to exist in order for people to make up the idea and believe in it.  Flying saucers don't have to exist in order for people to make up the idea and believe in it.

did that help?

btw, the link for the definition of meaning matched what I said it was...not what you stated previously.

[LegendarySandwich]

I've found that almost all of Defendor's posts contain equivocation. He keeps saying that we say there is no meaning, while that isn't true -- we're saying that there isn't any objective meaning. We're operating on two different definitions here.

Defendor, I'd appreciate it if you could use the definition of meaning that Whitney has provided above for the purpose of the debate.

I thought I have been, but doesn't that statement that there is no "objective meaning, hold objective value?

And, Defendor -- what if you're wrong, and in reality invisible pink unicorns exist that will chop off your head if you don't believe in them? I choose to believe in them, for I'm right and they exist, then my head will continue to be connected to my neck; but if I'm wrong, I'll have lost nothing.

Then you're not atheist then

[/quote]
You're right -- I'm an agnostic Pastafarian.

[defendor]

Your point?

There is objective truth

No.

How so?

...What?

Why do you make moral laws for yourself if you're in a struggle for survival? why obey some moral code if there is no such thing?

There is none, as it's subjective.

First point..

Non-sequitor.

doesn't answer the question

Why shouldn't I?

You tell me, that's the answer i would love to hear

[Whitney]

Why do you make moral laws for yourself if you're in a struggle for survival? why obey some moral code if there is no such thing?

Stated simply:  Morality is an evolved survival trait that allows social creatures to work in groups.

[defendor]

You asked me to describe the colour blue, not to explain how the human brain interprets the colour blue when observed via the eye.
It would be pointless to describe to a person who has been blind all their life. I could use analogies of heat, texture or sound but they would have to be really keen to want me to go down that track

.

Or they'd have to see it for themselves

Please tell me how this relates to any point that you are trying to make?

if there is no such thing as meaning, why are you assuming meaning?

This is the point I was trying to make, how can you tell someone to go find their own meaning, when there is no such thing as meaning in the first place.

Please define "meaning"

i posted a definition from definition.com

By saying people can individually find meaning in meaningless things (pleasure, food, people, etc.) isn't that lying if there is no meaning?

Who has said people can individually find meaning? Who says there is no meaning? Please define meaning.

Everyone on this board has said they find personal meaning, but say there is no objective meaning, go to dictionary.com

...also you mention lying as if you are basing your statement on objective truth, for if there were no such thing as objective truth, then there is no such thing as lying

Are you taking drugs?

[/quote]

Nope but that doesn't answer my question

[LegendarySandwich]

Your point?

There is objective truth

Also, you keep saying things as if we believe that there's no objective truth, when I've told you many times now that I, and most likely the majority of other users here, believe in objective truth. Meaning is not the same as facts.

No.

How so?

Since it's very unlikely that any god(s) exist(s), it's very likely that life started by random chance.

...What?

Why do you make moral laws for yourself if you're in a struggle for survival? why obey some moral code if there is no such thing?

I'm not in a struggle for survival. I follow moral codes for my own benefit.

There is none, as it's subjective.

First point..

Non-sequitor.

doesn't answer the question

I don't need to answer the question, as it's a non-sequitor.

Hey, Defendor! What kind of underwear are you wearing? Please be very elaborate.

Why shouldn't I?

You tell me, that's the answer i would love to hear

I care about things because I want to.

[defendor]

the question of God was before movies, some gullible people believe there is no God (now it depends on which perspective you are willing to take, for if this were all subjective, then they are just as 'right' as you are)

Who tricked me into believing there's no god, if I'm so gullible?

Yourself, its an issue of the heart, you don't want anyone telling you how to live your life

The universe is a closed system, not just the earth

How do you know?

the laws of physics, can you physically move outside of space and time?

And yet, you keep using it as if it has to be objective.

Right "what is intended to be, or actually is, expressed or indicated"

[defendor]

Also, you keep saying things as if we believe that there's no objective truth, when I've told you many times now that I, and most likely the majority of other users here, believe in objective truth. Meaning is not the same as facts.

so are we basing meaning on facts?