The purpose of life

[defendor]

I don't in the least understand where you are going with this.
Atheists can treat each other very well, we are not taught the intolerance that some faiths and scriptures promote.
BTW I also value all animals, we should treat them well too.

I'll make it short, why? Why do you value things that (according to your world view) have no value?

[Whitney]

I can only tell you about it, but it's the Holy Spirit's job to convince you.  Objective meaning comes from the God who designed you (He used science to do it).  This is the Faith we believe in, that we are in fact meaningful, even as our common logic tells us.  That this meaning we don't understand, was written on our hearts by our God to seek him for meaning, not ourselves.

Defendor, please read the rules; if you can't support a claim you shouldn't present it here because that's preaching.  Faith claims are meaningless    to atheists.

[defendor]

I watched the video, but doesn't see how it relates to the first question, unless  the person in that video assumes that Catholics are not real Christians. The pope and millions of Catholic believers might however not agree with that guy   . Basically, I don't really care if some Christian groups believe that they are better Christians. The last question has already been sufficiently answered by others in this thread.

Catholics have many deviations from reformed theology, namely the Apocrypha, and works based deism.  I forgot what the last question was haha

[defendor]

Defendor, please read the rules; if you can't support a claim you shouldn't present it here because that's preaching.  Faith claims are meaningless    to atheists.

I like it ha I can support this without biblical evidence, but by your own argument.  If you, as an atheist, realize the meaninglessness of everything,  How can you suppose meaning in meaninglessness (for that is redundant and empty)? where is this meaning coming from if there is no such thing? If you say from yourself then you are supposing that you are full of meaning, for only something that has meaning can produce anything meaningful, but then not everything is meaningless.  If you are meaningless then you can't suppose any sort of meaning for anything, that everything is meaningless without any sense of meaning, for it is a product of something meaningless, how can someone who is meaningless produce something meaningful.

[Whitney]

I really don't care if it has an ultimate meaning or not nor do I see why I would need to apply meaning in order to enjoy stuff.  I'm not sure how to make that more clear.

[McQ]

I smell troll.

[LegendarySandwich]

I'll make it short, why? Why do you value things that (according to your world view) have no value?

They have no OBJECTIVE value. I value them because I think they're valuable.

[LegendarySandwich]

I like it ha I can support this without biblical evidence, but by your own argument.  If you, as an atheist, realize the meaninglessness of everything,  How can you suppose meaning in meaninglessness (for that is redundant and empty)? where is this meaning coming from if there is no such thing? If you say from yourself then you are supposing that you are full of meaning, for only something that has meaning can produce anything meaningful, but then not everything is meaningless.  If you are meaningless then you can't suppose any sort of meaning for anything, that everything is meaningless without any sense of meaning, for it is a product of something meaningless, how can someone who is meaningless produce something meaningful.

All you're spouting is a bunch of theological garbage.

Please, get a new argument and, save us the headache.

[defendor]

All you're spouting is a bunch of theological garbage.

Please, get a new argument and, save us the headache.

What makes it garbage?  and btw am I not just as right as you are?

[defendor]

I really don't care if it has an ultimate meaning or not nor do I see why I would need to apply meaning in order to enjoy stuff.  I'm not sure how to make that more clear.

So what do you mean by "enjoyment"...? Things that are meaningless that appeal to you (who is meaningless)  I don't see the logic in why or how you place such value on things of this nature (that are meaningless)?

[defendor]

Here's the thing, defendor.  You seem to be saying that because many of believe that there's no ultimate purpose or meaning to life, that we shouldn't enjoy things.  However, we do.  That's just a fact, inconvenient though it may be.  So it's a silly argument.

Its a fact according to what?  Making a statement that there is no objective truth, is an objective truth in itself.  

The fact is that atheism and happiness are not incompatible.

You're right, only it's value/meaning and atheism are incompatible

Or maybe you're saying that if you don't believe that there is a purpose or meaning, it's illogical to enjoy life.  But many of us do.  In fact, many of us enjoy life more than many people who believe in God.  So you may as well stop trying to convince us that we should be miserable.  It's isn't Christian to do so.

Again you're basing this fact on some objective reality that atheists decree is only subject.  There are no facts.  And if it is illogical to enjoy life, then we can't think with normal logic as to why life is enjoyable then can we?  And I'm not trying to convince you that you should be miserable, I'm simply asking, according to your philosophy, why aren't you?  What basis of moral standards are you trying to insinuate that something is indicative of being "Christian"? if you're gonna say that that's what the bible says and you don't believe in it 1.  Why are you referring to me that according to you is false 2.  please tell me what the bible say

As others have pointed out, we evolved to enjoy certain things.  The underlying reason we enjoy stuff is that it serves as motivation for certain tendencies which are good for the survival and reporduction of the species.  And those enjoyments are mostly instinctive and separate from what our philosophy of life is.

So where in the natural order of chaos and chance, have the natural processes of life evolved to bring together such metaphysical realities as pleasure?  and so if you're philosophy and instinctive behavior are in a dichotomous relationship, how can you expect to believe the philosophy if you're actions deny it?

I hope you aren't telling us that atheists shouldn't enjoy sex.  That would be going too far.  We'd have to come over there and spank you.

kinky

[defendor]

defendor, I don't even know how to respond from here.

All I said is that I don't think there is objective meaning but I can make up a meaning (if I want to).  I don't put much stock in whether I actually describe what life means to me or not; but I do enjoy life because there are lost of things about life to enjoy regardless of if in the end it had some grand purpose or not

.

But you're making a claim to objective truth, that there is no objective truth.  Also you're assuming that if you make up meaning, that it then somehow has meaning (even if it's only a personal thing), which contradicts everything being meaningless.  I don't know how you could be so strong, I would feel so empty if life had no meaning.

I am in no way saying that my subjective idea that life is to enjoy should be forced on anyone else; you can hate life all you want   So I don't see why your comments veered towards trying to disprove forcing people to take on my subjective view.

I'm just curious as to how you have conjured up meaning if there is no such thing as meaning.

[Whitney]

defendor, do me a quick favor

Please define objective and subjective.

I think we are not using them in the same way and these terms typically have to be taught in beginner philosophy class due to how often people have trouble with them.

[defendor]

They have no OBJECTIVE value. I value them because I think they're valuable.

You are also assuming that what you think has value, but according to your philosophy, you have no value, so you can't think of anything valuable.  So how can something that has no value place value on something?  That is contradictory, you are assuming that you are valuable (which you are) and so with your value, you can place that value on other people.  But what is placing value on you? is it yourself (non valuable, as I stated earlier how can something without value create a sense of value) or something that in its essence is the definition of valuable (god)

[defendor]

They have no OBJECTIVE value. I value them because I think they're valuable.

You are also assuming that what you think has value, but according to your philosophy, you have no value, so you can't think of anything valuable.  So how can something that has no value place value on something?  That is contradictory, you are assuming that you are valuable (which you are) and so with your value, you can place that value on other people.  But what is placing value on you? is it yourself (non valuable, as I stated earlier how can something without value create a sense of value) or something that in its essence is the definition of valuable (god)