Any Atheists Here Opposed to Abortion?

[The Magic Pudding]

AnimatedDirt, I believe the law should apply to everyone, regardless of age or relationship.  Whether I physically assault my 35 year old neighbor, my 75 year old aunt, or my two year old son, the same law against physical assault should apply.  This application of the law should begin at birth.  It is the negating of the rights of children and parents that I am against, and much of our current law does just that.

-a-train

Doesn't a child suffer more emotionally from being raped than a mature person?
Both may be damaged, but the youg may not develop ideally.
I could just say you're 75 year old aunt could be expected to suffer ten more years of fear, whilst a ten year old has 70 years of fear to look forward to.
I can see an economic argument stemming from this, the young person never goes to university, perhaps continues the abuse cycle.
This is an interesting documentary, it put forward the idea that a persons "age of attraction" can get stuck at the age they were abused, a person abused at ten continues to find ten year olds attractive.  
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/ ... 2_1405.mp3
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/360/stories/2010/3012196.htm
Anyway I think we owe children a greater duty of care because they are more vulnerable, so I would support the greatest punishment a society could afford whilst preventing further harm.

[LegendarySandwich]

Anyway I think we owe children a greater duty of care because they are more vulnerable, so I would support the greatest punishment a society could afford whilst preventing further harm.

Punishment? Wouldn't rehabilitation be better?

[The Magic Pudding]

Anyway I think we owe children a greater duty of care because they are more vulnerable, so I would support the greatest punishment a society could afford whilst preventing further harm.

Punishment? Wouldn't rehabilitation be better?

Most people in prison will be released so yes rehab if possible benefits society.
Punishment deters offenders, though far from perfectly.
I think punishment is part of justice, people who follow the rules need to see rule breakers held to account.
Denial of liberty is a punishment, normally anyway.

[LegendarySandwich]

Anyway I think we owe children a greater duty of care because they are more vulnerable, so I would support the greatest punishment a society could afford whilst preventing further harm.

Punishment? Wouldn't rehabilitation be better?

Most people in prison will be released so yes rehab if possible benefits society.
Punishment deters offenders, though far from perfectly.
I think punishment is part of justice, people who follow the rules need to see rule breakers held to account.
Denial of liberty is a punishment.

Do you have any evidence that punishment deters offenders?

[a-train]

AnimatedDirt, I believe the law should apply to everyone, regardless of age or relationship.  Whether I physically assault my 35 year old neighbor, my 75 year old aunt, or my two year old son, the same law against physical assault should apply.  This application of the law should begin at birth.  It is the negating of the rights of children and parents that I am against, and much of our current law does just that.

-a-train

Doesn't a child suffer more emotionally from being raped than a mature person?
Both may be damaged, but the youg may not develop ideally.
I could just say you're 75 year old aunt could be expected to suffer ten more years of fear, whilst a ten year old has 70 years of fear to look forward to.
I can see an economic argument stemming from this, the young person never goes to university, perhaps continues the abuse cycle.
This is an interesting documentary, it put forward the idea that a persons "age of attraction" can get stuck at the age they were abused, a person abused at ten continues to find ten year olds attractive.  
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/ ... 2_1405.mp3
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/360/stories/2010/3012196.htm
Anyway I think we owe children a greater duty of care because they are more vulnerable, so I would support the greatest punishment a society could afford whilst preventing further harm.

Your line of thinking is good.  The current system would not remunerate the victim at all.  The perpetrator goes to prison or into some state funded rehab or watch program while the victim goes completely without recompense.  The courts should actually cause the perpetrator to pay reparations to the victim.  Younger victims should get more in reparations than older victims.

-a-train

[The Magic Pudding]

Do you have any evidence that punishment deters offenders?

Drink driving used to be very common.
Random breath testing was introduced in the 1980s.
If you drank and drove you could expect to be caught and punished by loss of licence maybe jail.
I KNOW punishment works in this case.
http://www.driveandstayalive.com/articl ... esting.htm

So far as deterring sex offenders, they are a strange bunch and not particularly rational, but prison isn't a pleasant place for them, I do recommend the link I placed in the previous post.

[LegendarySandwich]

Do you have any evidence that punishment deters offenders?

Drink driving used to be very common.
Random breath testing was introduced in the 1980s.
If you drank and drove you could expect to be caught and punished by loss of licence maybe jail.
I KNOW punishment works in this case.
http://www.driveandstayalive.com/articl ... esting.htm

So far as deterring sex offenders, they are a strange bunch and not particularly rational, but prison isn't a pleasant place for them, I do recommend the link I placed in the previous post.

Hm.

Well, I do think we should punish them, but not too harshly, and try to rehabilitate them in the process. I remember seeing somewhere that in one area, they made special housing for sex offenders that had finished out their sentence in jail but weren't ready to be released back into public. It was really comfortable and nice -- hell, they could even view legal pornography in there.

That's the sort of thing I want to see.

[Wilson]

Well, I do think we should punish them, but not too harshly, and try to rehabilitate them in the process. I remember seeing somewhere that in one area, they made special housing for sex offenders that had finished out their sentence in jail but weren't ready to be released back into public. It was really comfortable and nice -- hell, they could even view legal pornography in there.

That's the sort of thing I want to see.

Legal pornography?

[LegendarySandwich]

Well, I do think we should punish them, but not too harshly, and try to rehabilitate them in the process. I remember seeing somewhere that in one area, they made special housing for sex offenders that had finished out their sentence in jail but weren't ready to be released back into public. It was really comfortable and nice -- hell, they could even view legal pornography in there.

That's the sort of thing I want to see.

Legal pornography?

As opposed to child pornography or the like, which obviously wouldn't be a very good thing to give to a pedophile (which a lot of sex offenders are).

[MariaEvri]

Any Atheists Here Opposed to Abortion?

I am not against abortion. I am not for abortion. Each case is different and each ase should be treated differently. If an abortion is a must, I will not say no to it.
"must" includes: pregnancy due to rape, a misshapen embryo, danger of mother's health/death etc

[LegendarySandwich]

Any Atheists Here Opposed to Abortion?

I am not against abortion. I am not for abortion. Each case is different and each ase should be treated differently. If an abortion is a must, I will not say no to it.
"must" includes: pregnancy due to rape, a misshapen embryo, danger of mother's health/death etc

Do you think it should be illegal for a mother to have an abortion if everything was perfectly fine but she didn't want to take care of it?

[Stevil]

Any Atheists Here Opposed to Abortion?

I am not against abortion. I am not for abortion. Each case is different and each ase should be treated differently. If an abortion is a must, I will not say no to it.
"must" includes: pregnancy due to rape, a misshapen embryo, danger of mother's health/death etc

Do you think it should be illegal for a mother to have an abortion if everything was perfectly fine but she didn't want to take care of it?

I think governments should butt out. Having an abortion is a difficult decision for most and these people should be given support rather than be driven towards underground clinics. For whatever the reason, the decision should be in the parents hands, in particular, the mother.
I can see the potential for abuse, e.g. selective gender, alternative for contraception etc. But really, education is the answer, not legislation.

[MariaEvri]

Any Atheists Here Opposed to Abortion?

I am not against abortion. I am not for abortion. Each case is different and each ase should be treated differently. If an abortion is a must, I will not say no to it.
"must" includes: pregnancy due to rape, a misshapen embryo, danger of mother's health/death etc

Do you think it should be illegal for a mother to have an abortion if everything was perfectly fine but she didn't want to take care of it?

I'm not sure about the illegal part yet... definitely Im not 100% okay if the mother is healthy and not in any danger. BUT as a woman myself, I can see how an unwanted pregnancy can be a problem.. having something growing inside me and changing my life. I haven't decided about that.

[LegendarySandwich]

I'm not sure about the illegal part yet... definitely Im not 100% okay if the mother is healthy and not in any danger. BUT as a woman myself, I can see how an unwanted pregnancy can be a problem.. having something growing inside me and changing my life. I haven't decided about that.

If you do end up feeling that unnecessary abortions should become illegal, then you'll be the first atheist on this thread who has voiced that opinion.

[Stevil]

I'm not sure about the illegal part yet... definitely Im not 100% okay if the mother is healthy and not in any danger. BUT as a woman myself, I can see how an unwanted pregnancy can be a problem.. having something growing inside me and changing my life. I haven't decided about that.

If you do end up feeling that unnecessary abortions should become illegal, then you'll be the first atheist on this thread who has voiced that opinion.

I'll go out on a limb here.
If past 24 weeks pregnancy I think it should be illegal to have an abortion with intent to kill the baby. My reason is that at 24 weeks, babies can survive outside the womb, it would then be necessary for hospitals to provide medical care to give the baby the best chance of survival. Obviously there would be exceptions to the rule e.g. medical issues etc.