Having a personal relationship with God

[Thumpalumpacus]

so what your saying is you have no proof?

What business  is it of yours?  It's his personal relationship with Elvis.

[gsaint]

What business is it of yours? It's his personal relationship with Elvis.

more verbal dancing yet no proof.

[LegendarySandwich]

I will believe that Elvis Presley has been talking to me in my head for 20 years, and will continue to believe so, until you can prove that he hasn't and won't.

I'm waiting.

so what your saying is you have no proof?

Do you have proof that God is talking to you? Elvis Presley was a real man whose existence is verifiable. I can't say the same for your God.

Do you have proof that Elvis isn't talking (and occasionally singing) to me?

What business is it of yours? It's his personal relationship with Elvis.

Thank you, Thump. I'm glad some people around here still value the virtue of faith.

[gsaint]

Do you have proof that God is talking to you? Elvis Presley was a real man whose existence is verifiable. I can't say the same for your God.

Do you have proof that Elvis isn't talking (and occasionally singing) to me?

First you give me proof that I do not have a relationship with God and then I will answer you question

[LegendarySandwich]

Do you have proof that God is talking to you? Elvis Presley was a real man whose existence is verifiable. I can't say the same for your God.

Do you have proof that Elvis isn't talking (and occasionally singing) to me?

First you give me proof that I do not have a relationship with God and then I will answer you question

First you give me proof that I do not have a relationship with Elvis and then I will answer your question.

[Achronos]

So I will re-post my statement to you fine ladies and Gentlemen out there

I said to Mr. lundberg500 "I live with God daily. You have shown me nothing that says that what I am experiencing is a delusion. You haven't been able to do so because you can't prove your point. I will believe this until you give me good solid proof to disprove a 20 year relationship with God."

I still haven't heard anyone disprove this point

I will believe that Elvis Presley has been talking to me in my head for 20 years, and will continue to believe so, until you can prove that he hasn't and won't.

I'm waiting.

*sigh* Not this again.  How many times do you have to be told that nobody is offering subjective evidence for why you should believe?  It is offered as a reason for why that singular individual believes, and in that, they are justified.  We've been over this...

This idea that the God I believe in can somehow be denoucned logically, well on that contrary, myself, along with many others working in the top of their fields, whether philosophy, cosmology, biology, history, you name it, have logically arrived at the God of the Bible. It's not that difficult.  

I've asked you on several occasions to prove to me that you're not a brain in a vat, but alas, you refuse. I'm waiting. And until you prove that then what good is it to say that you are not suicidal and not heartless?

[metaed]

As an atheist, I truly cannot understand how someone can let themselves ever believe that they are in a personal relationship with something or someone that cannot be seen or heard. This completely baffles me. I personally would worry about my own sanity if I was ever in a relationship like that. Is this some sort of psychological comfort to them that they feel they need and can't live without? I really don't understand.

Believing in beings which cannot be seen or heard is not a sign of mental illness. It is no different from believing in the electron despite never seeing one---or believing in Santa Claus. Both correct and incorrect beliefs in invisible beings are held by sane people. The reason that we have some incorrect beliefs in invisible beings is not mental illness. It's a failure to be skeptical. But skepticism has to be taught. It is not nearly as natural as believing in invisible beings. (Now believing in beings which you see and hear but nobody else does ... that might be a different story.)

[Thumpalumpacus]

What business is it of yours? It's his personal relationship with Elvis.

more verbal dancing yet no proof.

Hey, you should google the phrase "hoist by his own petard."

[Achronos]

As an atheist, I truly cannot understand how someone can let themselves ever believe that they are in a personal relationship with something or someone that cannot be seen or heard. This completely baffles me. I personally would worry about my own sanity if I was ever in a relationship like that. Is this some sort of psychological comfort to them that they feel they need and can't live without? I really don't understand.

Believing in beings which cannot be seen or heard is not a sign of mental illness. It is no different from believing in the electron despite never seeing one---or believing in Santa Claus. Both correct and incorrect beliefs in invisible beings are held by sane people. The reason that we have some incorrect beliefs in invisible beings is not mental illness. It's a failure to be skeptical. But skepticism has to be taught. It is not nearly as natural as believing in invisible beings. (Now believing in beings which you see and hear but nobody else does ... that might be a different story.)

Great post.

[gsaint]

First you give me proof that I do not have a relationship with Elvis and then I will answer your question.

does this mean you quit?

I do appreciate an objective direct answer from metaed. I don't need someone to agree with me I just someone willing to share their proof that I do not have a relationship with God.

[Thumpalumpacus]

As an atheist, I truly cannot understand how someone can let themselves ever believe that they are in a personal relationship with something or someone that cannot be seen or heard. This completely baffles me. I personally would worry about my own sanity if I was ever in a relationship like that. Is this some sort of psychological comfort to them that they feel they need and can't live without? I really don't understand.

Believing in beings which cannot be seen or heard is not a sign of mental illness. It is no different from believing in the electron despite never seeing one---or believing in Santa Claus. Both correct and incorrect beliefs in invisible beings are held by sane people. The reason that we have some incorrect beliefs in invisible beings is not mental illness. It's a failure to be skeptical. But skepticism has to be taught. It is not nearly as natural as believing in invisible beings. (Now believing in beings which you see and hear but nobody else does ... that might be a different story.)

Great post.

From here:

[LegendarySandwich]

As an atheist, I truly cannot understand how someone can let themselves ever believe that they are in a personal relationship with something or someone that cannot be seen or heard. This completely baffles me. I personally would worry about my own sanity if I was ever in a relationship like that. Is this some sort of psychological comfort to them that they feel they need and can't live without? I really don't understand.

Believing in beings which cannot be seen or heard is not a sign of mental illness. It is no different from believing in the electron despite never seeing one---or believing in Santa Claus. Both correct and incorrect beliefs in invisible beings are held by sane people. The reason that we have some incorrect beliefs in invisible beings is not mental illness. It's a failure to be skeptical. But skepticism has to be taught. It is not nearly as natural as believing in invisible beings. (Now believing in beings which you see and hear but nobody else does ... that might be a different story.)

The key phrase in Lundberg's post is "personal relationship".

I believe in things that cannot be seen or heard (like...uh...), but I do not think that they know and love me. That's the difference.

I do agree that theism isn't a mental illness, just a lack of healthy skepticism.

EDIT: Maybe I don't actually believe in anything that can't be seen or heard.

[LegendarySandwich]

So I will re-post my statement to you fine ladies and Gentlemen out there

I said to Mr. lundberg500 "I live with God daily. You have shown me nothing that says that what I am experiencing is a delusion. You haven't been able to do so because you can't prove your point. I will believe this until you give me good solid proof to disprove a 20 year relationship with God."

I still haven't heard anyone disprove this point

I will believe that Elvis Presley has been talking to me in my head for 20 years, and will continue to believe so, until you can prove that he hasn't and won't.

I'm waiting.

*sigh* Not this again.  How many times do you have to be told that nobody is offering subjective evidence for why you should believe?

Not true. Lots of Christians are, even if you are not one of them.

It is offered as a reason for why that singular individual believes, and in that, they are justified.  We've been over this...

Just like I'm justified in believing that Elvis talks to me. Glad we could sort that out.

I've asked you on several occasions to prove to me that you're not a brain in a vat, but alas, you refuse. I'm waiting. And until you prove that then what good is it to say that you are not suicidal and not heartless?

It's an axiom that I'm not a brain in a vat. We've been over this...

[Achronos]

Energy and matter can neither be created nor destroyed

That eliminates the need for God right there.  

That's a sloppy restatement of the Law of the Conservation of Energy, which is only concerned with closed systems.

Energy/matter has extension in spacetime. An actual infinite cannot be completed by successive addition. The temporal events of the past have been completed by successive addition. Therefore the temporal events of the past cannot be an actual infinite.

Since nothing with extension in spacetime can have always existed, anything with extension in spacetime has to have been caused to exist, energy included.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Since nothing with extension in spacetime can have always existed, anything with extension in spacetime has to have been caused to exist, energy included.

You've gussied up Anselm with scientific language, yet you've committed his fallacy of special pleading.