The Futile Arguments Thread

[ChristianWarrior]

I'm confused    didn't you just say goodbye?

Only for a little while I was leaving. I had to go do stuff, but now I'm back. That was just meant to show that I wasn't going to be on for a while.

[McQ]

What a surprise. A bunch of people attacking someone who has a different opinion. I've been looking into some threads, and I can firmly say that some people are saying that believing in any afterlife or god is ridiculous and nonfactual. However, none of you can prove that god doesn't exist and there isn't an afterlife, can you? Each and everyone of you in here have found a way to wriggle around the question or not directly answer me.  I can't prove that God exists. I don't pretend that I can or believing in God and God's powers is at all factual. Believing in God is purely being faithful and nothing more. However, some of you on here are acting like not believing in a God is factual when it's the same exact concept as believing in God. It's all being faithful, so I would appreciate you people not acting like it's fact. Or you can continue to bath in your own ignorance.

Huh? That's interesting. We thought you left. See, the whole post in which you got all huffy and then said, "Goodbye" at the end was sort of misleading. I took that to mean you had enough of the atheists and were going away.

So, are you staying or not? If staying, press one. [spoiler:66628ums]1. Welcome![/spoiler:66628ums]
If leaving, press two. [spoiler:66628ums]2. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.[/spoiler:66628ums]

Now, all snide comments aside. Do you want to ACTUALLY learn what atheists think, or not? If you do want to learn something, as you have written, then chill out, stop acting persecuted, and ask some serious questions, and expect to be challenged.

And don't start out by telling someone they have to prove a negative (look it up on if you're not familiar with the concept).

So now, time to fish or cut bait. Stop whining, and get serious, CW.

[Tank]

I'm confused    didn't you just say goodbye?

Only for a little while I was leaving. I had to go do stuff, but now I'm back. That was just meant to show that I wasn't going to be on for a while.

You're not behaving like you're particularly 'forum savvy', not a criticism just an observation. May I offer some suggestions that might make your time here a little more comfortable?

[ChristianWarrior]

What a surprise. A bunch of people attacking someone who has a different opinion. I've been looking into some threads, and I can firmly say that some people are saying that believing in any afterlife or god is ridiculous and nonfactual. However, none of you can prove that god doesn't exist and there isn't an afterlife, can you? Each and everyone of you in here have found a way to wriggle around the question or not directly answer me.  I can't prove that God exists. I don't pretend that I can or believing in God and God's powers is at all factual. Believing in God is purely being faithful and nothing more. However, some of you on here are acting like not believing in a God is factual when it's the same exact concept as believing in God. It's all being faithful, so I would appreciate you people not acting like it's fact. Or you can continue to bath in your own ignorance.

Huh? That's interesting. We thought you left. See, the whole post in which you got all huffy and then said, "Goodbye" at the end was sort of misleading. I took that to mean you had enough of the atheists and were going away.

So, are you staying or not? If staying, press one. [spoiler:1cdh1iph]1. Welcome![/spoiler:1cdh1iph]
If leaving, press two. [spoiler:1cdh1iph]2. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.[/spoiler:1cdh1iph]

Now, all snide comments aside. Do you want to ACTUALLY learn what atheists think, or not? If you do want to learn something, as you have written, then chill out, stop acting persecuted, and ask some serious questions, and expect to be challenged.

And don't start out by telling someone they have to prove a negative (look it up on if you're not familiar with the concept).

So now, time to fish or cut bait. Stop whining, and get serious, CW.

Of course I want to learn about your beliefs. Why else would I go on an Atheist forum when I'm a Christian? And I have asked questions. My whole point with this thread is to prove that not believing a god is NOT factual. It's faith, so I'd appreciate people acting accordingly. I'm fine if you are an Atheist, as long as you're a good person, however I'm not fine with people treating faith as fact.

[ChristianWarrior]

I'm confused    didn't you just say goodbye?

Only for a little while I was leaving. I had to go do stuff, but now I'm back. That was just meant to show that I wasn't going to be on for a while.

You're not behaving like you're particularly 'forum savvy', not a criticism just an observation. May I offer some suggestions that might make your time here a little more comfortable?

As long as they're polite, then yes, go right ahead.

[Byronazriel]

What I don't understand is why you don't believe in a fun god, you say that you believe because of Faith. Why not have faith in something more interesting, and less fire and brimstone?

If I was going to put my faith in a god that I've never met, and that there's little to no real evidence for then I'd pick someone like Superman, Thor, and/or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Give me one reason why your god is better, or more reasonable than these other than the fact that someone other than yourself made that decision for you.

Also I should mention that I'm pretty sure that atheists don't have faith that gods don't exist, they just don't believe that they do. It's not the same.

Do you have faith that Cthulhu doesn't exist?

[Dretlin]

What a surprise. A bunch of people attacking someone who has a different opinion. I've been looking into some threads, and I can firmly say that some people are saying that believing in any afterlife or god is ridiculous and nonfactual. However, none of you can prove that god doesn't exist and there isn't an afterlife, can you? Each and everyone of you in here have found a way to wriggle around the question or not directly answer me.  I can't prove that God exists. I don't pretend that I can or believing in God and God's powers is at all factual. Believing in God is purely being faithful and nothing more. However, some of you on here are acting like not believing in a God is factual when it's the same exact concept as believing in God. It's all being faithful, so I would appreciate you people not acting like it's fact. Or you can continue to bath in your own ignorance.

I raised these issues in my post, I am very ready to have a a polite discussion about this, by all means have a stab at debating the content of my post.

On a forum is quite easy to see disagreement as attacking, I would rather we worked past this and tackled each others points.

If you are genuinely interested in doing so, that is.

[Heretical Rants]

I'm not fine with people treating faith as fact.

I have no faith, and I have serious doubts regarding what can be called "fact."

Any problems with that?

[Whitney]

I'm not trying to convert anyone Whitney, I'm just asking a question.I get why you don't want to believe in a god (There's nothing wrong with being faithful to your own religion or rather being faithful to not believing in a religion), but why do SOME of you on here treat not believing in God as fact and not faith?

I don't think your tone is indicative of someone who is just asking a question...and why in the world would you say goodbye afterward using such a snotty tone as if you intend not to come back?  Or are you saying you didn't intend for your tone to come across that way (note that it still is).

No, you don't "get it".  I have no reason to not want to believe in a generic god (although there are some god concepts that I'm very glad are too contradictory to be plausible).

It doesn't take faith to not believe in something...I don't know what you think the word faith means but I like to use the dictionary:

â€"noun
1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6.the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7.the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8.Christian Theology . the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

Now, which of the above fits what you mean when you say faith?  Now think about that...how does it apply to someone who doesn't have a belief in something.  Could you apply it to someone that doesn't believe in gnomes?

[ChristianWarrior]

2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

All of you Atheists on here have faith that there is no God. Can you prove it? No. Can I prove there is a God? No. We have faith. Faith in different things, but non the less faith.

That's my definition of faith Whitney. My tone wasn't meant to be snotty. Perhaps you just took it that way because I'm a Christian. Sorry if you took it as snotty

2.belief that is not based on proof

Not believing in garden gnomes or believing that Superman is real isn't faith. That's just stupid because it CAN be proven that Superman is fictional and garden gnomes are real. I assume you mean the plastic gnomes. To the man who said why not believe in something more fun, why don't you believe in something more fun? Because you think Atheism is perfect for you, I believe Christianity is perfect for me. That's why I believe in it.

[Tank]

I'm confused    didn't you just say goodbye?

Only for a little while I was leaving. I had to go do stuff, but now I'm back. That was just meant to show that I wasn't going to be on for a while.

You're not behaving like you're particularly 'forum savvy', not a criticism just an observation. May I offer some suggestions that might make your time here a little more comfortable?

As long as they're polite, then yes, go right ahead.

1) Stick with one thread. You're going to get a lot of feedback and giving effective replies to multiple posts in multiple threads will be unnecessarily difficult because this is no a sprint, it's potentially a marathon so pacing yourself would be good.

2) Tell has about yourself, not your beliefs, you. Many people like you come to atheist forums for various reasons and they do what you have done, lead with their faith. I frankly they don't get taken seriously. Trust is what is required if friendship is to develop, disclosure is one of the cornerstones of trust. Tell us about yourself, whatever you feel comfortable with.

3) I don't see you as your ideas, most people here are of a similar frame of mind. What you hold dear, we don't, so things you hold as a given we will rip apart and expect you to have answers. If you don't have answers you're rather on a hiding to nothing.

And as McQ pointed out do your very best to chill out and not take things personally. That's difficult.

Good luck.

[Dretlin]

2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

All of you Atheists on here have faith that there is no God. Can you prove it? No. Can I prove there is a God? No. We have faith. Faith in different things, but non the less faith.

That's my definition of faith Whitney. My tone wasn't meant to be snotty. Perhaps you just took it that way because I'm a Christian. Sorry if you took it as snotty

2.belief that is not based on proof

Not believing in garden gnomes or believing that Superman is real isn't faith. That's just stupid because it CAN be proven that Superman is fictional and garden gnomes are real. I assume you mean the plastic gnomes. To the man who said why not believe in something more fun, why don't you believe in something more fun? Because you think Atheism is perfect for you, I believe Christianity is perfect for me. That's why I believe in it.

I do not have "faith" that their is not a God (what even makes you think there is just one?), no evidence for any God/Gods exist - so by that I take the stance that none do.

I can not disprove any Gods exists nor can I disprove there is a flying teapot around the sun, but is that enough reason to believe in the flying teapot? Of course not. If you take the position that it is justifiable to believe in everything that can not be disproved, why stop at god?

That is the problem, your faith works for you, it does not work for reality. Start from reality instead of wishful thinking.

I hope this is helping in clearing things up about Atheists for you.  

[Davin]

I'm not trying to convert anyone Whitney, I'm just asking a question.I get why you don't want to believe in a god (There's nothing wrong with being faithful to your own religion or rather being faithful to not believing in a religion), but why do SOME of you on here treat not believing in God as fact and not faith?

I treat is as neither fact or faith, as I'm sure most atheists do. Because the lack of faith is not, by definition, faith. The lack of water is not water. The lack of a belief in a god is not a belief.

Please refer to my post where I quoted Ricky Gervais, I'd provide my own example (yet again), it's just this misconception of what the word atheist means and that atheists believe certain things is kind of old.

[Baggy]

2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

All of you Atheists on here have faith that there is no God. Can you prove it? No. Can I prove there is a God? No. We have faith. Faith in different things, but non the less faith.

That's my definition of faith Whitney. My tone wasn't meant to be snotty. Perhaps you just took it that way because I'm a Christian. Sorry if you took it as snotty

2.belief that is not based on proof

Not believing in garden gnomes or believing that Superman is real isn't faith. That's just stupid because it CAN be proven that Superman is fictional and garden gnomes are real. I assume you mean the plastic gnomes. To the man who said why not believe in something more fun, why don't you believe in something more fun? Because you think Atheism is perfect for you, I believe Christianity is perfect for me. That's why I believe in it.

There are a lot of very strong arguments about this issue - rational ones, where logic and rationality really do win the day, however let me suggest a slightly different approach.

I don't believe in a god because I have no reason to, ok? Prove to me I am wrong in my belief.

[ChristianWarrior]

2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

All of you Atheists on here have faith that there is no God. Can you prove it? No. Can I prove there is a God? No. We have faith. Faith in different things, but non the less faith.

That's my definition of faith Whitney. My tone wasn't meant to be snotty. Perhaps you just took it that way because I'm a Christian. Sorry if you took it as snotty

2.belief that is not based on proof

Not believing in garden gnomes or believing that Superman is real isn't faith. That's just stupid because it CAN be proven that Superman is fictional and garden gnomes are real. I assume you mean the plastic gnomes. To the man who said why not believe in something more fun, why don't you believe in something more fun? Because you think Atheism is perfect for you, I believe Christianity is perfect for me. That's why I believe in it.

There are a lot of very strong arguments about this issue - rational ones, where logic and rationality really do win the day, however let me suggest a slightly different approach.

I don't believe in a god because I have no reason to, ok? Prove to me I am wrong in my belief.

Which is perfectly fine. You're entitled to not believing in a god(s). My point is that it isn't ok to act and say that that's fact though. Which only applies to some people on this board, not all.