Santa Clause Atheism.

[KebertX]

Just trying to gauge a response, do you think it's completely dickish for an atheist to start a big angry debate with a nine year old girl about the existence of Santa Clause?

An acquaintance of mine was doing this today, and I cannot imagine a more asshole thing to do.  I get questioning people's beliefs, but isn't there a line not to be crossed when it comes to Santa?  I mean, you're not going to earn any points for intellectual superiority by showing why you don't believe in the fat man.  But no, this guy was seriously yelling at a little girl, calling her ignorant for believing in Santa.

If you're going to shit all over the magic, feel free to attack Jesus, but the way I see it, Santa Clause is sacred!  I'm just venting, I suppose. That really pissed me off.

IDK, just so this thread isn't entirely useless, I'll ask: what do you all think of Santa?  Something you'd let your kids believe?  Something it's okay to attack?  You don't celebrat Christmas, and you don't give a shit?



SANTA!! !

[Cecilie]

Just trying to gauge a response, do you think it's completely dickish for an atheist to start a big angry debate with a nine year old girl about the existence of Santa Clause?

Yes.

[The Magic Pudding]

I can't imagine a parent doing this, parents usualy have to actively maintain the belief.
For someone to this to someone else's child is sick.
I might even say this disabuse is abuse, if it wasn't obvious.
Is this person a moron sociopath or what?

[Inevitable Droid]

Just trying to gauge a response, do you think it's completely dickish for an atheist to start a big angry debate with a nine year old girl about the existence of Santa Clause?

Yes.  The topic doesn't even matter.  An adult starting a big angry debate with a nine year old girl (or boy) about anything at all would be moronic.

Now, let's say it were a friendly, good-natured, easy-going debate about some topic, engaged in strictly for the edification of the nine year old.  Evaluating this would require us to evaluate the topic itself.  Here I would have to assume the adult wasn't in fact the kid's parent, since I can't imagine the kid persevering when the parent says, "Look, Sue, trust me, it was I who put those packages under the tree, and it was I who bought the gifts in the first place, and it was I who ate the cookes you left by the fireplace."  What kid would persevere in the face of that?

Assuming the adult wasn't the kid's parent, I'm left imagining a conversation like this:

Adult: "Your parents bought those gifts."

Kid: "Did not!  My parents don't trick me!"

Adult: "Your parents put the gifts under the tree."

Kid: "Did not!  They'd tell me if they did!"

Adult: "Your parents ate the cookies you left by the fireplace."

Kid: "Did not!  I'll prove it!  When they pick me up this afternoon I'll ask them!"

Adult: "You do that.  I look forward to it."

     
Yup.  Pretty much the definition of dickish.

[KebertX]

This was not his daughter, but a distant cousin (I think).  He's taking an idealogical stand against teaching children to believe in things that aren't true.  The girl was actually doing pretty well in the conversation.  And I admit, it was amusing to see how well her Pro-Santa argument matched up with the average brainwashed religious faithhaver's Pro-God argument.

But she really was presenting her Santa-faith in a very intelligent and collected manner.  Plus just a little holier-than-thou snobbery

I can't imagine a parent doing this, parents usualy have to actively maintain the belief.
For someone to this to someone else's child is sick.
I might even say this disabuse is abuse, if it wasn't obvious.
Is this person a moron sociopath or what?

As far as I can tell, he's just an angry atheist out to steal Christmas.  Not unlike...

[Whitney]

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing the pretend games with kids regarding santa...it's a good opportunity to allow them to learn how to look a the world skeptically.  However, even if there were something wrong about telling kids some things that aren't true that doesn't excuse someone to berate a child for holding onto childish beliefs.

[Sophus]

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing the pretend games with kids regarding santa...it's a good opportunity to allow them to learn how to look a the world skeptically.  However, even if there were something wrong about telling kids some things that aren't true that doesn't excuse someone to berate a child for holding onto childish beliefs.

Because fewer people do. Other kids start to tell yours that your parents are lying and it's just a whole big ugly mess. Nothing like losing your kids trust over Coca-Cola's mascot.

[KebertX]

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing the pretend games with kids regarding santa...it's a good opportunity to allow them to learn how to look a the world skeptically.  However, even if there were something wrong about telling kids some things that aren't true that doesn't excuse someone to berate a child for holding onto childish beliefs.

Because fewer people do. Other kids start to tell yours that your parents are lying and it's just a whole big ugly mess. Nothing like losing your kids trust over Coca-Cola's mascot.

OFF TOPIC: Santa did exist in many forms before Coca Cola came up with the modern Santa image.  Like the rest of Christmas, Santa was stolen from a Pagan myth.

ON TOPIC: I happen to think childhood is the perfect time to believe in Santa, and the tooth-fairy, and all that magic stuff.  And learning Santa is a "lie" is really a great way to learn to question authority.  Even if that authority were me, I'd be glad to see that trait in a child of mine.

[ablprop]

I posted something like this before, so I apologize for the repeat. I'm an athiest who loves Christmas.

I think the Santa myth is a great path toward atheism. Will my children trust me less when they figure out the truth? Maybe, but why should they trust any authority figure?

But it's so much more than that. When children learn the truth of the Santa myth, they learn that the spirit of giving can live in only one place - inside themselves. If there's no magical figure to take care of everything, guess who has to do the hard work? We do! Knowing the truth about Santa means you have a lot more personal responsibility when it comes to Christmas. That's the message. And it isn't limited to the Santa myth. Not believing in God means you have a lot more personal responsibility when it comes to your life and the world you find yourself in.

I want my children to know the truth about Santa - and I want them to figure it out for themselves.

[KebertX]

I'm an athiest who loves Christmas.

This  

[Inevitable Droid]

With regard to my own daughters -

Desirable
Question authority's accuracy in general.
Question authority's honesty in general.
Question Dad's accuracy.

Undesirable
Question Dad's honesty.

[Sophus]

I happen to think childhood is the perfect time to believe in Santa, and the tooth-fairy, and all that magic stuff. And learning Santa is a "lie" is really a great way to learn to question authority. Even if that authority were me, I'd be glad to see that trait in a child of mine.

I just can't live with myself doing it. Doesn't feel right. But maybe Santa is real.

[The Magic Pudding]

I happen to think childhood is the perfect time to believe in Santa, and the tooth-fairy, and all that magic stuff. And learning Santa is a "lie" is really a great way to learn to question authority. Even if that authority were me, I'd be glad to see that trait in a child of mine.

I just can't live with myself doing it. Doesn't feel right. But maybe Santa is real.

That's a reasonable thing for your own children, but for someone to take on the task of putting other peoples children straight is just weird.

[Sophus]

I happen to think childhood is the perfect time to believe in Santa, and the tooth-fairy, and all that magic stuff. And learning Santa is a "lie" is really a great way to learn to question authority. Even if that authority were me, I'd be glad to see that trait in a child of mine.

I just can't live with myself doing it. Doesn't feel right. But maybe Santa is real.

That's a reasonable thing for your own children, but for someone to take on the task of putting other peoples children straight is just weird.

 Never claimed to be doing that.

[The Magic Pudding]

I just can't live with myself doing it. Doesn't feel right. But maybe Santa is real.

That's a reasonable thing for your own children, but for someone to take on the task of putting other peoples children straight is just weird.

 Never claimed to be doing that.

I didn't mean to suggest you did, it was what the guy described in the OP was doing.