Exhaustion

[dgmort19]

Haven't you not only scorned them, but publically insulted them with your agreement that they goaded you, through delusion, ignorance, non-educated, absurdity and unreason to the point of telling your own family to ****off the next time?

I have stated that their beliefs are deluded and that I find their ignorance incredibly frustrating. This does not mean that I despise them. I was simply looking for others with whom to discuss similar family lives. It is quite the complicated situation. I suspect that you, yourself, may not have experienced anything such as the family scenario I have described, yes? One might not understand until placed within it.

Then on top of this you allow other supposedly like-minded people as yourself to insult your own family, which you "love"...if that's not a contradiction in terms, I don't know what is...and call them uneducated, brainwashed, hallucinating and in the end calls them fools? This is the family you love?

I don't think I have "allowed" anything, nor have I been malicious toward them. Unless I am mistaken, the only one delivering less-than-complimentary adjectives to them, at this point, is you. For that very reason, you'll notice that you are the only one whom I feel the need to correct within this discussion.

[Whitney]

Just because some people still include religious idea in a holiday celebration doesn't mean that a large group of others don't.  Even polls indicate that for a significant portion of the population (not just in one country) don't think religion has much to do with christmas anymore.

A ComRes poll of 1,000 adults for the think tank found that just under half (46 percent) agreed with the statement that the birth of Jesus is “irrelevant” to their Christmas, compared with 51 percent who believe His birth is relevant.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... christmas/

In a recent telephone poll participants were asked: Does Christmas Day have any religious significance for you?
While the poll found that for 55 per cent Christmas Day had no religious significance, the day still held a religious dimension for 45 per cent of New Zealanders.
The result mirrored a similar poll taken a year ago, said Research NZ director Emanuel Kalafatelis.
The poll found that those aged 60 and over were more likely to agree that Christmas Day had religious significance for them (63 per cent), compared with 31 per cent of 15 to 29 year-olds.
"The results by age group indicate that our attitudes to Christmas are in a state of transition," Mr Kalafatelis said.
"While the religious aspects of Christmas are still alive and well for a sizeable number of New Zealanders, this group is likely to grow smaller over time.
"This change will be driven by the relatively higher number of younger people who attach no religious significance to Christmas."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/773466

* More than 9 out of 10 Americans celebrate Christmas. For most of them, it's a religious holiday, but 28 percent only participate in secular observances, like tree-trimming and gift-giving, rather than honoring its spiritual dimension.

http://blogs.chron.com/believeitornot/2010/12/poll_americans_are_still_reall.html

Two-thirds of people surveyed by Harris Interactive felt their loved ones were the most important aspect of Christmas, followed far behind by parties and presents...
Despite the stress and commercialism of the holiday season, what most Americans enjoy most about Christmas is spending time with family and friends, according to a new poll. . . Just over a third said most people believe the holidays are a chance to spend time with loved ones and celebrate traditions. The other two thirds were split between believing it's about presents and feeling that it's about both.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1044149420071210


Even the word "holiday" itself originates from holy day yet we use it to describe secular celebrations too...so obviously having the word christ in christmas has no bearing on if the celebration is secular.  No one complains about goodbye or the days of the week being non-secular because they contains remnants of religious ideas either.

[AnimatedDirt]

Sorry for the earful.

I knew it would come.

I make the point that you and others have said your family is this and that, yet it's me insulting you and them??

[dgmort19]

Well you state that I'm insulting them, and that this should override my affection for them.

1) I don't consider discussing their factual ignorance an insult. They're ignorant. To call them otherwise would be false.
2) You can simultaneously love and find someone ignorant.

[AnimatedDirt]

Well you state that I'm insulting them, and that this should override my affection for them.

1) I don't consider discussing their factual ignorance an insult. They're ignorant. To call them otherwise would be false.
2) You can simultaneously love and find someone ignorant.

Only ignorant?  There's a slew of other adjectives that have been haphazardly flung in their direction, not to mention the "issuing of a polite, yet meaningful, ****off" the next time.

I suppose since you think it is me referring to them as such, I will offer my apology for doing so.

[dgmort19]

No apologies necessary, man.

Unless I am mistaken, the only one delivering less-than-complimentary adjectives to them, at this point, is you.

I am not under the impression that you have insulted them. When I said this, I merely meant that you seem to think that I have.

a slew of other adjectives

None that I have used to describe them. My OP used the nouns "ignorance," "absurdity" and "delusion." You came up with the terms "stupid" and "fools." If the latter terms have been haphazardly flung in their direction, they were not done so by me.

issuing of a polite, yet meaningful, ****off" the next time

This was humor. I would never speak to them in such a way. However, I felt that it captured the feelings of agitation that I meant to convey.

[AnimatedDirt]

No apologies necessary, man.

Unless I am mistaken, the only one delivering less-than-complimentary adjectives to them, at this point, is you.

I am not under the impression that you have insulted them. When I said this, I merely meant that you seem to think that I have.

Thank you, however it remains my opinion you are insulting the ones you love.  You have not protected them in the least from people insinuating they are those things.  The love you feel towards them, certainly isn't coming across when you agree (by not disagreeing or correcting) they are what your like-minded friends on this forum have said they are.

a slew of other adjectives

None that I have used to describe them. My OP used the nouns "ignorance," "absurdity" and "delusion." You came up with the terms "stupid" and "fools." If the latter terms have been haphazardly flung in their direction, they were not done so by me.

I challenge you to reread the thread from start to finish (to this point at least) and see exactly who came up with these terms for your family.  I didn't pull "stupid" or "fools" out of thin air.

issuing of a polite, yet meaningful, ****off" the next time

This was humor. I would never speak to them in such a way. However, I felt that it captured the feelings of agitation that I meant to convey.

Humor.  I can accept it as humor.  If, therefore, you'd never speak to them this way, why allow others to do the same or worse in public words?

I think you understand that because they love you and your brother, they don't want your life to end in this life.  They wish for you to be a whole family in this life and beyond.  Appreciate that (I think you do) and embrace their love in trying as weak and as "ignorant"...as they do to convince you.  If they argue with you, it is simply that they feel the same frustration from the opposite perspective as you.  Don't complain for if they didn't love you, they wouldn't try to change your heart.

[Whitney]

Thank you, however it remains my opinion you are insulting the ones you love.  You have not protected them in the least from people insinuating they are those things.  The love you feel towards them, certainly isn't coming across when you agree (by not disagreeing or correcting) they are what your like-minded friends on this forum have said they are.

Why should he care what some random atheists on some forum may have said about his family when they weren't doing so with the intent of throwing insults at them but with the intent of discussing the topic at hand?  

plus, you were the first person (and pretty much the only person) to use the word "fool"  viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6408&start=15#p94483
first use of the word fool by anyone but AD...directed at AD: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6408&start=15#p94568
I said word stupid but didn't direct it at his family viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6408&start=15#p94568
First use of the word fool about the topic by anyone but AD, not directed at OP's family: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6408&start=30#p94585
First time OP's family is in any way refered to as idiots or stupid...in response to posts made by AD (my post, I have no reason to apologize to OP for it and OP has no need to defend his family as it's obvious I'd addressing AD's comments and not the OP): viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6408&start=30#p94601

note:  I did not cite all of the many places where AD referred to the OP's family as fools.

So. It's obvious to me that you are either remembering the entire thread incorrectly by projecting your own thoughts onto others...or you, for some unknown reason, want to piss off the OP by claiming he hates his family.  I hope it's the first option because the second is rather mean spirited.

I think someone owes someone an apology.

[AnimatedDirt]

I think someone owes someone an apology.

I'm sorry if you feel it was me calling his family these names (I already offered up my apology), but to correct you, one need not look any farther into the thread than the second post where the suggestion is to leave "fools to their folly"...before I ever got into the topic.  From that point on and then only using adjectives others had used to describe his/her family and the like, including "uneducated religious family", did I refer to the family as such only in questioning the absense of protecting his/her family's honor and in terms to degrade.  If I did, it would simply be calling myself the same as I too am Christian.  Now that would seem absurd and ignorant if that was my purpose to do so, wouldn't it?

[Stevil]

I try hard to respect others beliefs. So I think to myself, just maybe they are right. I have no conclusive proof that they are wrong.

With that in mind I avoid debates as to the existence of god/s as I know I can't prove my side of the debate and they can't prove their side of the debate, so what's the point really. Let them be happy and joyous in their beliefs and let you be happy and joyous in your stance.

For me Christmas is a family tradition, where we get together, exchange presents, eat lots of food and drink lots of alchohol. God, Jesus and Christianity has nothing to do with it for me. My family isn't religious so the topic of God, Jesus etc never comes up.

I do find it frustrating when people say things or write things about God e.g. sign off a Christmas Card with "God Bless" as to me it feels that they are pushing their beliefs onto me as if it is a fact. My stubborn innerself wants to immeadiately refute the statement but I know that no good will come of it. So I simply think that it is an honor that they are hoping that their god/s will bless me as they hold their god/s close and dear to their heart. I still don't get warm fuzzies but at least I don't react. I know I shouldn't hold my values onto others and expect them to be curteous back to me by respecting my beliefs. The thing with Faiths is that it is viral, the churches want people to spread the word and convert the unconverted. It's disgusting but is more of a reflection of the faith and the church rather than the individual worshippers.

[Whitney]

While I missed one instance of the word fool (a saying at that) I think the main point is you are getting worked up over nothing since no atheists in this thread have responded to the OP with the intent of attacking his family members...in fact this whole thread would have gone rather smoothly if it had not been for disruptive posts made by two theists members...

[AnimatedDirt]

While I missed one instance of the word fool (a saying at that) I think the main point is you are getting worked up over nothing since no atheists in this thread have responded to the OP with the intent of attacking his family members...in fact this whole thread would have gone rather smoothly if it had not been for disruptive posts made by two theists members...

You think it is being disruptive when someone posts a question and others give advice or thoughts on the point in question?  You think it's disruptive for someone to find exception with others using words and/or sayings to describe, if not his/her family, then those EXACTLY like his/her family with these derogatory terms such as, fools, uneducated, illogical, stupid, hallucinating, deluded...?  I'm being disruptive?

Is it, therefore, ok to use "sayings" to belittling others on this forum?  If so, please point me to where the list of these so called appropriate "sayings" is.

My original reason in getting "worked up" is that the OP seemed willing to tell his family to ****off, a vulgar and insensitive jump to a conclusion, with people one seemingly loves and "wants" to enjoy.  The "****off" seemed to indicate to me there was no reason to inflict him/herself with such "pain" being that the reason to gather is based on "uneducated, foolish, illogical..." thinking.  This still doesn't seem contradictory?

[Whitney]

AD if you can't see how the way you have approached the OP is disruptive then that's not my problem..not interested in discussing further.

[The Magic Pudding]

however i don't believe it will become so secularized that no longer will we remember the reason we celebrate it.  From the gifts the Maji brought and we emulate, to the evergreen trees and undying sun's rebirth...all aspects point to a belief in something that is worshiped.

I don't forget the reason Christians celebrate Christmas, they aren't my reasons though.
In most of the world there is no Thanks Giving, so Christmas is the one day many families get together.
No god is mentioned at my families Christmas gatherings, the guy in the red suit is popular though.
You work a couple of hundred days and you get a few off as public holidays, I don't begrudge the Christian label on the day, but the day is mine.
I suspect families got together and exchanged gifts before baby J made his appearance, seems kind of natural.

Christmas is celebrated in Japan, Jesus doesn't seem to rate a mention though.

http://www.tanutech.com/japan/jxmas.html

Christmas in Japan is quite different from the Chrismas celebrated in most countries in which the population has a large percentage of Christians or a Christian heritage. Only 1/2 of 1% of the Japanese population is estimated to be Christian, with the majority of Japanese being tolerant of all faiths: Buddhism, Christianity, Shinto, etc. In spite of this, the Japanese are great lovers of festivals and celebrations, including Christmas.

December 25th is not a national holiday in Japan, although December 23rd, which is the birthdate of the present emperor, is. Although it is not an official holiday the Japanese tend to celebrate Christmas, especially in a commercial way. The Japanese celebrate Christmas Eve by eating a 'Christmas Cake' which the father of the family purchases on his way home from work (or his wife does in the case where he has to work on Christmas Eve). Stores all over carry versions of this Christmas cake and drop the price of it drastically on December 25th in order to sell everything out by the 26th. This has resulted in a rather interesting expression in which young girls are referred to as a 'Christmas cakes': marriageable until their 25th birthday and requiring heavy discounts to get married after their 25th birthdays.

[DJAkuma]

I do find it frustrating when people say things or write things about God e.g. sign off a Christmas Card with "God Bless" as to me it feels that they are pushing their beliefs onto me as if it is a fact. My stubborn innerself wants to immeadiately refute the statement but I know that no good will come of it. So I simply think that it is an honor that they are hoping that their god/s will bless me as they hold their god/s close and dear to their heart. I still don't get warm fuzzies but at least I don't react. I know I shouldn't hold my values onto others and expect them to be curteous back to me by respecting my beliefs. The thing with Faiths is that it is viral, the churches want people to spread the word and convert the unconverted. It's disgusting but is more of a reflection of the faith and the church rather than the individual worshippers.

I feel the same when I have to interact with religious family members, I tend to cringe inside when they talk about things from the book of mormon that I find to be complete absurdities. I'm sure they feel the same though, I got a really strange look from my girlfriends parents one day when I mentioned something about evidence of people eating potatoes in south america something like 14,000 years ago.