Western Medicine and Bill Maher

[Recusant]

Western medicine is the third leading cause of death in America...

Would you mind providing a source for this authoritative statement?

It's very good at a few things, such as trauma care, diagnostics, and certain infectious diseases. It's pretty bad at others, notably degenerative diseases.

Do you have a suggestion where one might turn rather than modern science-based medicine when dealing with a degenerative disease?

[Davin]

Western medicine is the third leading cause of death in America...

Would you mind providing a source for this authoritative statement?

It's very good at a few things, such as trauma care, diagnostics, and certain infectious diseases. It's pretty bad at others, notably degenerative diseases.

Do you have a suggestion where one might turn rather than modern science-based medicine when dealing with a degenerative disease?

[KDbeads]

opppps, double posty............

[KDbeads]

Western medicine is the third leading cause of death in America...

Would you mind providing a source for this authoritative statement?

I think he's looking at a site like this:
http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm


Though if you look elsewhere, 3rd is varied from stroke and respiratory infections/disease:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ca ... th_by_rate
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/09 ... e-20101209

Edit to fix quote thingy....

[Recusant]

Western medicine is the third leading cause of death in America...

Would you mind providing a source for this authoritative statement?

I think he's looking at a site like this:
http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm

Thank you for providing a reference. However, that site is talking about the health care system in America, which is not synonymous with "Western medicine."

[Sophus]

Latest on the issue of vaccines and their relation to autism:
 

From CNN "Retracted autism study an 'elaborate fraud,' British journal finds":

An investigation published by the British medical journal BMJ concludes the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study -- and that there was "no doubt" Wakefield was responsible.
"It's one thing to have a bad study, a study full of error, and for the authors then to admit that they made errors," Fiona Godlee, BMJ's editor-in-chief, told CNN. "But in this case, we have a very different picture of what seems to be a deliberate attempt to create an impression that there was a link by falsifying the data."

EDIT:  To clarify; Wakefield is the person who is largely responsible for the latest revival of the anti-vaccination flapdoodle  (guess who were among the first to rail against vaccines a couple of centuries or so ago?  Yes, church leaders) which has been taken up as a sort of cause by such celebrities as Maher and Jim Carrey, to mention two.  For those who may not know much about it, one place to start is the Wikipedia article on the MMR vaccine controversy.

Was Bill one of those who thought vaccines could cause Autism? I don't recall him specifically saying that but, yikes! if he did.

[KDbeads]

Western medicine is the third leading cause of death in America...

Would you mind providing a source for this authoritative statement?

I think he's looking at a site like this:
http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm

Thank you for providing a reference. However, that site is talking about the health care system in America, which is not synonymous with "Western medicine."

It's sites like this that get people all upset and the like.  For many, insert my mom here as your average FoxNews watching American, Western Medicine and American Health Care Systems are one and the same.  They generally don't differentiate or care to or even care to examine the 'facts' thrown at them.  

[Recusant]

Was Bill one of those who thought vaccines could cause Autism? I don't recall him specifically saying that but, yikes! if he did.

No, I don't think that Maher has actually publicly taken that position, though he does support Barbara Loe Fisher, whose National Vaccine Information Center seems to be pushing the idea that vaccines are related to autism. In the same article by Maher linked above, he also mentions Dr. Russel Blaylock, (a neurosurgeon) who has also posited a connection between vaccines and autism. And Dr. Jay Gordon (a pediatrician), who while presenting some reasonable questions about vaccinations, also hints at a possible relation between vaccination and autism.

Perhaps I should have started a separate thread for this topic, but to me it seemed relevant to this issue.  My apologies for incorrectly implying a direct link between Bill Maher and the "vaccines cause autism" crowd.

[Voter]

Thank you for providing a reference. However, that site is talking about the health care system in America, which is not synonymous with "Western medicine."

Er, OK - The mainstream healthcare system is the third leading cause of death in America, so Maher's correct to question it. The Starfield study is the one I'm referring to. It appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Here's a link to the article. The relevant part starts near the end of page 1.

[Whitney]

Western medicine is the third leading cause of death in America, so Maher's right to question it. It's very good at a few things, such as trauma care, diagnostics, and certain infectious diseases. It's pretty bad at others, notably degenerative diseases.

Just because someone dies while under medical care doesn't mean medicine caused it.  Third leading cause is actually stroke http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

[Whitney]

Was Bill one of those who thought vaccines could cause Autism? I don't recall him specifically saying that but, yikes! if he did.

I don't recall but his views on medicine are not one of his rational strong points....I was offended (and so were others) that he was offered a position as adviser to the REASON project after having made such stupid comments (and is why I don't promote the REASON project..it's just a publicity stunt).

[Sophus]

Was Bill one of those who thought vaccines could cause Autism? I don't recall him specifically saying that but, yikes! if he did.

I don't recall but his views on medicine are not one of his rational strong points....I was offended (and so were others) that he was offered a position as adviser to the REASON project after having made such stupid comments (and is why I don't promote the REASON project..it's just a publicity stunt).

Whenever he talks about it he seems rather vague about what his point is. Then again I'm not a frequent viewer, but somehow I get the vibe Bill is implying that our Westerner lifestyle is such that we don't feel that we need to be preventative about health issues and so we think medicine can do all the magic. Don't let me put words in his mouth, but like I said, he always seems vague.

[Recusant]

The mainstream healthcare system is the third leading cause of death in America, so Maher's correct to question it.

Did you note that more than half of those reported deaths were due to error or poor procedure (nosocomial infections)?  The fact that humans make mistakes, or don't always do the right thing does not mean that the paradigm which informs their work is at fault.  If you actually read the article, it's clear that it's an indictment of the health care system in the United States, not "western medicine."  

However, if next time you or or somebody you love is ill or injured, feel free to consult a naturopath, a faith healer, a homeopath or any other of the quacks and frauds which make their living off of the gullible and desperate.

Science based medicine has been responsible for saving and improving literally millions of lives since it began to make real progress in the late 19th century.  That there are problems with the way in which it's administered, and that big pharma and the insurance companies have corrupted certain elements, is undeniable.  Even so, science based medicine itself is far superior to anything else which is available, whether Maher or you want to acknowledge it or not.

[Voter]

Just because someone dies while under medical care doesn't mean medicine caused it.

Of course not, else medicine would be the number one cause of death. Most people with cancer and heart disease do come under medical care before they go. This study is speaking of specific causes.

Third leading cause is actually stroke http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

Third leading is mainstream medicine. They just don't like to point that out.

[Voter]

Did you note that more than half of those reported deaths were due to error or poor procedure (nosocomial infections)?  The fact that humans make mistakes, or don't always do the right thing does not mean that the paradigm which informs their work is at fault.

Did you note that nearly half are due to non-error drug effects? Only considering that, it moves medicine down to about 6th on the list.

However, if next time you or or somebody you love is ill or injured, feel free to consult a naturopath, a faith healer, a homeopath or any other of the quacks and frauds which make their living off of the gullible and desperate.

Actually I do my own research first, then decide what, if any, specialist to see.

Science based medicine has been responsible for saving and improving literally millions of lives since it began to make real progress in the late 19th century.  That there are problems with the way in which it's administered, and that big pharma and the insurance companies have corrupted certain elements, is undeniable.  Even so, science based medicine itself is far superior to anything else which is available, whether Maher or you want to acknowledge it or not.

Depends on the area. For trauma and certain infections, you're right. For degenerative diseases, I disagree.