Explaining Sehnsucht

[Reginus]

Wikipedia Article on Sehnsucht

Sehnsucht is a German word which is very difficult to translate into English.  In essence, I think it can be best defined as a sort-of nostalgic longing or yearning for something of which we do not know.  I think that the very existence of the word it's self testifies to the existence of the emotion (we can debate this if you disagree.)

I'm not sure how sehnsucht could be explained through naturalistic evolution.  Unlike  thirst for water or the sex drive, it seems entirely purposeless to the survival of an individual or group.  Unlike our currently problem-prone spine (or our appendix, although scientists seem to have recently found a purpose it serves,) I don't understand how this could just be an evolutionary byproduct of something that was useful in the past, but isn't now.  From a theological standpoint, it can be explained as the consequence of the human race's separation from God.

So three questions:
1. Do you think sehnsucht exists as a real emotion?
2. Is there an adequate explanation for it from naturalistic evolution?
3. Is this argument just another God-of-the-gaps argument? (For some reason, it doesn't seem that way to me.)

[pinkocommie]

I found this which helped clarify the term for me:

Tender longing goes hand in hand with the painful knowledge that the thing longed for will never quite be attained.

Indeed, you even get the feeling that the granting of an eagerly awaited wish could immediately bring about the destruction of the desired object.

The English writer Oscar Wilde described the dilemma aptly when he said: "In this world there are only two tragedies: one is not getting what you want, the other is getting it."
The word Sehnsucht itself expresses this conflict.

http://www.ejpd.admin.ch/ejpd/en/home/dokumentation/red/archiv/reden_christoph_blocher/2006/2006-07-10.html

I'm still considering your questions, I just thought this addition info might be useful to anyone else who has never heard of this before.  

[Thumpalumpacus]

As far as any evolutionary purpose for it, I'm not sure that it needs one.  A brain as complex as ours is bound to have emergent properties which haven't been honed by selection.  There's a selection value to having long fingers, I imagine in the brachiation of our primate ancestors; but here we've taken those fingers and trained them to play piano.

[Tank]

Curiosity is possibly the root of this feeling. Curiosity is an abiding feature of the great apes and of humans in particular. Other more cerebral mammals such as the toothed whales and elephants also exhibit curiosity. If religion is institutionalised superstition then science is institutionalised curiosity. Humans exhibit a need to explore and understand the world around them, they receive a positive reinforcement feelings for success, the feeling of not knowing is possibly the negative reinforcement balance and could be the motivator to 'get out of this bloody cave and find out!'

[Reginus]

Curiosity is possibly the root of this feeling. Curiosity is an abiding feature of the great apes and of humans in particular. Other more cerebral mammals such as the toothed whales and elephants also exhibit curiosity. If religion is institutionalised superstition then science is institutionalised curiosity. Humans exhibit a need to explore and understand the world around them, they receive a positive reinforcement feelings for success, the feeling of not knowing is possibly the negative reinforcement balance and could be the motivator to 'get out of this bloody cave and find out!'

I understand what you're saying, but imo the drive to explore and learn is a different than sehnsucht.  I think that sehnsucht has both an element of beauty and and element of sorrow.  For me, it's sometimes brought about by pieces of art like these:


Or by songs like this:
[youtube:3nchutg1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmSdTa9kaiQ[/youtube:3nchutg1]
As others have said, I think sehnsucht is one of the most fundamental and universal human emotions.

[Sophus]

This is a fabulous thread.

1. Do you think sehnsucht exists as a real emotion?

Yes. I believe I've experienced it. I've been caught saying on this forum before that I oft find beauty and pleasure in melancholy. This more adequately expresses what I've been attempting to say.

2. Is there an adequate explanation for it from naturalistic evolution?

This would be fascinating for a neurology study. I can guess but of course I don't know, although I'm sure there is a reason for it.
Desire drives everything. The more strongly an animal desires something like a mate the more likely they are to do so. If some pain does not accompany the fact that that desire has not yet been met then they will not pursue it as vigorously. Pain seeks pleasure. Likewise if the thought were to only bring with it pain, the thought itself would not be a desirable one nor would it be beneficial. It would simply drain the being of all energy for daily life, it seems. So, I would argue it could come about both for the purpose of the survival of the species and in the survival of the individual.

3. Is this argument just another God-of-the-gaps argument? (For some reason, it doesn't seem that way to me.)

Um.... assuming we don't really know what would cause Sehnsucht I would say it is a sort of God of the Gaps, as there is some which has yet to be explained from evolutionary theory. But it's a very interesting and original thought! Kudos.

[The Magic Pudding]

I'm not crazy about this song, but perhaps it's relevant.

IS THAT ALL THERE IS?
Peggy Lee

SPOKEN:
I remember when I was a very little girl, our house caught on fire.
I'll never forget the look on my father's face as he gathered me up
in his arms and raced through the burning building out to the pavement.
I stood there shivering in my pajamas and watched the whole world go up in flames.
And when it was all over I said to myself, "Is that all there is to a fire"

SUNG:
Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

SPOKEN:
And when I was 12 years old, my father took me to a circus, the greatest show on earth.
There were clowns and elephants and dancing bears.
And a beautiful lady in pink tights flew high above our heads.
And so I sat there watching the marvelous spectacle.
I had the feeling that something was missing.
I don't know what, but when it was over,
I said to myself, "is that all there is to a circus?

SUNG:
Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

SPOKEN:
Then I fell in love, head over heels in love, with the most wonderful boy in the world.
We would take long walks by the river or just sit for hours gazing into each other's eyes.
We were so very much in love.
Then one day he went away and I thought I'd die, but I didn't,
and when I didn't I said to myself, "is that all there is to love?"

SUNG:
Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing

SPOKEN:
I know what you must be saying to yourselves,
if that's the way she feels about it why doesn't she just end it all?
Oh, no, not me. I'm in no hurry for that final disappointment,
for I know just as well as I'm standing here talking to you,
when that final moment comes and I'm breathing my lst breath, I'll be saying to myself

SUNG:
Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

[Reginus]

But it's a very interesting and original thought! Kudos.

Not exactly.  I got this directly from this sermon.

[Gawen]

Sehnsucht is a German word which is very difficult to translate into English.  In essence, I think it can be best defined as a sort-of nostalgic longing or yearning for something of which we do not know.

If I do not 'know' a thing, how can I yearn for it?

From a theological standpoint, it can be explained as the consequence of the human race's separation from God.

This doesn't work. If one 'knew' God and was separated from it and wanted to be unseparated from it and couldn't get back together with it, it would be called yearning or a sense of loss.
Sehnsucht would apply to an atheist, for example, that longed to be with or 'know' God.

So three questions:
1. Do you think sehnsucht exists as a real emotion? Yup
2. Is there an adequate explanation for it from naturalistic evolution? No
3. Is this argument just another God-of-the-gaps argument? (For some reason, it doesn't seem that way to me.) I cannot see it being a argument for the existence of anything not known.

[philosoraptor]

Sehnsucht is a German word which is very difficult to translate into English.  In essence, I think it can be best defined as a sort-of nostalgic longing or yearning for something of which we do not know.

If I do not 'know' a thing, how can I yearn for it?

I'm not a native German speaker, so if there is one who wishes to correct me, feel free.  My understanding of Sehnsucht as it was taught to me in my German classes is that it is a longing for something that we don't know in the sense that you almost feel a void that needs to be filled, but you aren't sure what would fill it.  So in that way, you do long for a thing that you don't know because you aren't sure what it is.

I hope that made sense.  I'm two bottles of Moscato in right now, so I imagine half the stuff that makes sense to me doesn't translate.

[Gawen]

Perhaps, then, the concept is alien to me. The closest I think I can get to this concept is when I'm hungry but don't know what I want. Of course, I know what I want is some sort of food, but can't make up my mind what type of food to eat. But it's not the same as 'Sehnsucht'. Sehnsucht must be that 'thing' that people say "There's something missing in my life but I don't know what". I do not suffer from this.

[philosoraptor]

Perhaps, then, the concept is alien to me. The closest I think I can get to this concept is when I'm hungry but don't know what I want. Of course, I know what I want is some sort of food, but can't make up my mind what type of food to eat. But it's not the same as 'Sehnsucht'. Sehnsucht must be that 'thing' that people say "There's something missing in my life but I don't know what". I do not suffer from this.

Further proof that Sehnsucht has nothing to do with the separation of humans from God. ;-)

[Gawen]

Perhaps, then, the concept is alien to me. The closest I think I can get to this concept is when I'm hungry but don't know what I want. Of course, I know what I want is some sort of food, but can't make up my mind what type of food to eat. But it's not the same as 'Sehnsucht'. Sehnsucht must be that 'thing' that people say "There's something missing in my life but I don't know what". I do not suffer from this.

Further proof that Sehnsucht has nothing to do with the separation of humans from God. ;-)

I agree...

[Sophus]

Perhaps, then, the concept is alien to me. The closest I think I can get to this concept is when I'm hungry but don't know what I want. Of course, I know what I want is some sort of food, but can't make up my mind what type of food to eat. But it's not the same as 'Sehnsucht'. Sehnsucht must be that 'thing' that people say "There's something missing in my life but I don't know what". I do not suffer from this.

Am I the only one who enjoys (<--for lack of a better word) Sehnsucht? Maybe I am misunderstanding the concept from everyone else because I don't think it is a form of suffering.... exactly.

[Tank]

Perhaps, then, the concept is alien to me. The closest I think I can get to this concept is when I'm hungry but don't know what I want. Of course, I know what I want is some sort of food, but can't make up my mind what type of food to eat. But it's not the same as 'Sehnsucht'. Sehnsucht must be that 'thing' that people say "There's something missing in my life but I don't know what". I do not suffer from this.

Am I the only one who enjoys (<--for lack of a better word) Sehnsucht? Maybe I am misunderstanding the concept from everyone else because I don't think it is a form of suffering.... exactly.

If the word explains the feeling I think it does, an empty sort of longing, then I'm with Sophus that a sort of longing melancholia can be a rather 'enlightening' even enervating feeling. It's the sort of feeling one has just before one gets an urge to write some soppy piece of prose or poetry.