Having My Skepticism Challenged

[Dispirited]

I appreciate the responses, thank you. I believe I've had enough.

[pinkocommie]

I appreciate the responses, thank you. I believe I've had enough.

I hope you'll consider watching that video.  It's very clear and well put.  Regardless, good luck!

[Dispirited]

I did, and many more. Very interesting, indeed.

I merely think that my position has been either misrepresented by myself or misinterpreted by others and am growing tired of being scolded for a problem that I don't have. Consider it a very long bout of "there AREN'T any cases of pigs actually flying, right? Yeah, didn't think so."

[pinkocommie]

I did, and many more. Very interesting, indeed.

I merely think that my position has been either misrepresented by myself or misinterpreted by others and am growing tired of being scolded for a problem that I don't have. Consider it a very long bout of "there AREN'T any cases of pigs actually flying, right? Yeah, didn't think so."

I gotcha, that can be very annoying and tiring.  I hope you decide to stick around regardless - this place is really good about disagreeing without getting nasty, which is what I enjoy.

[KDbeads]

I appreciate the responses, thank you. I believe I've had enough.

I merely think that my position has been either misrepresented by myself or misinterpreted by others and am growing tired of being scolded for a problem that I don't have. Consider it a very long bout of "there AREN'T any cases of pigs actually flying, right? Yeah, didn't think so."

Ahem, you asked for insight....

...... So, with that said, please, lend me your insight.

I'll leave it at that, though the idea that we are scolding you because several of us are pointing out the unbelievable quality of these so called miracles is kinda funny, especially if there have been plausible explanations given.

[Businessocks]

As a former Christian myself, I understand how hard it can be to give up the "good stuff," i.e. the miracles.  But for me, it boils down to what it would mean if the examples you gave truly were miracles.  

To explain, I don't understand a god who answers a prayer about a toenail but ignores thousands of believers who pray for food, clothes, medicine, safety around the world.  So if god performs some miracles--answers some prayers but ignores others--what's the point of praying?  God is going to do what god is going to do.  

Prayer became one of the main reasons I stopped trying to be a Christian.  It's no win.  If god answers prayers, then "His Will" can be changed by the wants of individuals, so there's no larger plan to understand.  So it's a wishy-washy god who plays favorites.  But if god doesn't answer prayers, then he really doesn't care about the day to day struggles on a person, get-involved level.  Either way, I don't see much point in prayer.  It's still a crap shoot.

 Also, the idea of miracles begs the question of what becomes the tipping point for prayer?  What makes god listen to someone?  How faithful they are?  How earnestly they pray?  That's nonsense because of all the people I know who have lost children or others they loved but prayed desperately for their healing.  Or take my former boss, for instance.  Her daughter was born with a rare chromosomal disorder.  This woman is a fundamentalist all the way and prays all the time.  She has been holding prayer circles and has had the healing of her daughter on her church prayer list for 9 years.  No change.  This is a person who tithes and does all the "right" things by the church.  Where is her miracle?

In short, perhaps if you stopped trying to explain the miracles via god or answered prayers and considered the implications of them being god-answered miracles, you'll reach a different conclusion.

Hope I've helped and at least made some sense.  Welcome to the forum.

[The Magic Pudding]

Why won’t you cynics accept the miracle of the regrown fingernail?
I think a fingernail world tour should be arranged to restore faith to the doubters.

I despair at this lack of faith.
If only there had been more faith when Dispirited's poor mother was young.
She wouldn't have had to wait ten years for someone to prey and heal her hearing.

This link has a light and easy look at chance by the Raidolab people.
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/ ... 6_1205.mp3

[deekayfry]

I have lost three fingernails and have co-workers who experienced the same thing of which I physically saw first hand.  All of mine grew back without any outside influence.  Same with my co-workers.

[KDbeads]

Yeah, and you really don't wanna know how he lost them   Or the toenail.......

[Thumpalumpacus]

I suffered 2° burns over 30% of my face, and twenty+ years later, have no scars.

All credit belongs to the Goddess Aloe.

[Tanker]

Not that I'm saying you are but you come off as a Christian with a message who is pretending to be an atheist to get his message through.  I say this because you describe yourself and your experience exactly as many Christians portray atheists and unlike any atheist I've ever known.  

So you haven't actually seen any of these "miracles" or even seen video of them?  The answer is that people see what they want to believe.  

Second and third-hand accounts really aren't evidence at all.  I'm not saying that the people involved are lying but stories have a way of growing from teller to teller because they hear what they expect or want to, not what is actually said.  

People want to believe in miracles because there's the strong possibility of getting caught in an unpleasant and un-fixable situation.  They want a way out of these situations that have no way out so they convince themselves that there are ways out.    

The "miracles" you are talking about wouldn't be considered as evidence in a court of law.  Even eyewitness testimony is taken with a grain of salt, even if the witness is well respected, simply because the mind plays tricks.  The mind fills in details to make what was heard, felt, or seen fit what we expect or hope for or fear.

All your points are exactly the ones I was thinking including the how the poster seems like a parady.

[Tank]

Well he's gone off to RatSkeps and is as happy as a pig in poo over there.

[Kylyssa]

I suffered 2° burns over 30% of my face, and twenty+ years later, have no scars.

All credit belongs to the Goddess Aloe.

I survived a beat down and pistol whipping that caused a skull fracture, broken ribs, broken collarbone, internal bleeding and an eight or nine day coma.  I'm at least somewhat fucked up because of it but nine out of ten Christians tell me it was a miracle I survived.  I disagree.  It was through the kindness of the unknown homeless person who called the ambulance and through the skill and hard work of the EMTs and the hospital staff and surgeons who did their best to keep me alive that I survived, not due to a miracle.  All credit belongs to people who helped.

And the fingernail thing - I have two thumbnails that I lost in a very unpleasant manner.  They are lumpy and break off once they grow past the tip of my thumbs but they grew back after getting pulled out.

[pinkocommie]

Well he's gone off to RatSkeps and is as happy as a pig in poo over there.

Is he really a skeptic then or is he some stealth troll as was suspected?  I can't imagine they reacted to this post any gentler than we did - IF he posted his over there as well.

[Tank]

He did post over there, I suggested it    Nobody called him on being a concern troll, yet.