Can An Atheist/Evolutionist Be An Environmentalist?

[Tank]

Thanks for the response. I'll be over at RatSkep. And if you think HAF is a tough audience, you're right, but we are also generally a polite one. As you appear new to forum debate, as indicated by the copy pasts first post, may I suggest you limit your questions to the smallest and most concise that will reasonably illicit the answer you are looking for. Large rambling posts tend to deliver large rambling answers and discussion bogs down into meaningless generalisations.

[pinkocommie]

First of all, yes I did post in multiple places, probably 3 or 4. I didn't realize there was anything wrong with that

There isn't anything wrong with it...unless you neglect to reply thoughtfully in all places using new thoughts instead of cut and paste.  How would you like it if someone ran up to you in a room shouted a rather jumbled question your way, ran off shouting the question at a few other people then came back and wondered why you were not receptive to their question?  Seriously, if you're going to cut and paste at least proof read it so that is easy to read and gets your questions across clearly.

I'd appreciate if you'd let us know if you plan to participate here because if you aren't I'll go ahead and lock the thread so that people won't waste their time responding to no one.

I actually started to answer, but then realized that I had no reason to trust that this person had any intention of actually participating here and decided to wait and see.  My default is to assume people are telling the truth, and it sucks to have to start doubting new posters because so many previous ones have been hit-and-runs or full on trolls.  :/

[Tank]

@Pinko

I tend to not dive in on contentious first post nowadays. I used to think it was a good thing and sometimes if the subject is interesting I may answer because I enjoy the subject and hoping the person will respond. But I'm getting more cynical nowadays.

[Kylyssa]

So you somehow need to believe in Jesus to care whether more things survive beyond half-starved humans, rats, and cockroaches?  We may be atheists but we want to live and we want life to be worth living.  Atheists don't believe that some God will come and save us from our own idiocy if we screw up the one and only place we have to live - earth.  Many atheists tend to care whether or not people are screwing up the earth.  Many Christians feel that way, too.  Those Christians who don't feel the earth is their disposable toy generally support environmentalism, too.  

It's not a moral judgment any more than deciding when it's safe to cross the road is a moral judgment.  Just through observation and reasoning a person can realize that some things are a bad idea or a good idea without bringing any moral judgments into it.  If you have a car and need it to get back and forth to your job would it be a good idea for you to strip the copper out of the electrical system to sell for scrap metal?  You were probably able to answer that, no, it wouldn't be a good idea to mess up your car.  I doubt you'd need to consult your Bible to figure that out.

[buzzripper]

I guess I'll contradict myself and add some responses here anyway....

...Large rambling posts tend to deliver large rambling answers and discussion bogs down into meaningless generalisations....

Yeah in hindsight I should have been more direct with my question, I suppose, I just thought the environmentalism angle on it made it very interesting and more likely to spark debate and discussion. I actually didn't mean it to be as contentious as it sounded. But I shouldn't have assumed that anyone would know where I'm coming from after getting a feel for what you guys have to deal with from other Christians I now see why it was so inflammatory.

This is what makes me think that most religious people, regardless of how much they claim they want an open dialog with opposing viewpoints, actually have little interest in dialog at all.  At least not online, which maybe shouldn't be as shocking as I find it.

Yeah there's a lot of those, but I'm really not one them, I really try hard to be honest about my faith and any intellectual questions I have about it, I hope you'll give me a chance. And you're right about the online point too, everyone loves online interaction cause they can just forget about decorum/politeness and just let it rip. Of course those types aren't interested in dialog either, it's much more self-satisfying for them to just spew. Of course that applies to atheists and christians, and anyone else for that matter.


More to follow...  thanks!

buzz

[Tank]

Buzz is you want a tight polite discussion this could well be the place for you!

[Businessocks]

Sophus said it very clearly:

A good moral compass operates on empathy, not world-view.

And I would add -- as others have alluded to already -- that our ability to reason guides decisions that are beneficial in the long run for humanity, rather than just what a book tells us to do.

One more point, since leaving Christianity, my compassion for animals (even insects) has grown tremendously.  Since I now see all living organisms as just trying to survive, I treat them with more respect than when I was following the Christian idea that humans are superior to animals and have a right to use them however they want.  In short, all life jumped in value once I started focusing on the physical reality of here and now.  I'd say I have more morals now than as a Christian.

Can I ask you a question (even though I doubt you'll be back either.)?  How can Christians claim to hold the absolute moral compass when they focus on condemning homosexuals over pastors who are lying to and robbing their parishioners blind so they can drive that Cadillac?  when they build huge mega churches costing millions of dollars instead of using that money to feed and clothe the poor?

[Thumpalumpacus]

FWIW, I hope Buzz stays around.

[deekayfry]

Buzz is all right to post this anywhere he or she please.  Buzz, you present an interesting and good question that spurs a good healthy debate.

Your question, "Can An Atheist/Evolutionist Be an Environmentalist?"

My answer, "Yes! Absolutely!" and "Why not?"

An atheist/evolutionist can be pro-industrial and not give a shit about the environment, either.

Personally, I work in an industry that has to do something with the environment to extract its natural resource.  This valuable commodity is then sold to another industry that use it to extract an even more valuable commodity, which for the near foreseeable future, we seem we cannot live without.

Environment is more than just saving the whales.  It is also about the substance and its effect on US.  We often and all too often focus on how our pollution is destroying habitats and uprooting species.  Yet, these same chemicals are medically harming us as well.

[Anthemyst]

The problem of Where Does Morality Come From is a heavily debated one in ethics, and atheists by no means agree on the answer.

Here's the thing: I'm willing to bet that you, as a Christian, have the exact same problem. I say this because when I was a Christian, my thoughts on ethics and morality were basically the same as they are now.

So, I ask you the same question: What is YOUR justification for your beliefs about what is and isn't right? I'll take for granted that your motivation FOR doing the right thing is Because God Wants Me To(I think this is a psychologically harmful view which reduces humanity to a three year old who does things to avoid a spanking and can hardly be termed 'moral', but that's a separate issue I'm willing to drop for the moment). Let's just say that for you, morality is doing whatever God wants, and that's where morality comes from, and that's the end of it. Here's your problem:

How do you determine what God wants?

And be careful: Unless you are advocating stoning all city-residing rape victims to death, to name one of many socially unacceptable beliefs present in the Good Book, you cannot simply say you get it from The Bible. If you get it from some parts and not others, how do you decide which parts are good and which are bad? Cherry-picking? If you're doing that, you're not too different from us-we just cut out the middle man, that's all.

If God has personally spoken to you, I guess you can disregard the point, but if not, you're stuck with figuring morality out based on what you feel or reason is right. If that is your justification for figuring out what God does and doesn't want, congratulations, you're just like us. We also do what we feel or reason is right(some of us spend more time reasoning than others in both camps, of course), we just skip the final step of, "And it feels right because it's what God wants".

If you are truly interested in the question of morality, I would recommend taking an ethics class. But I assure you, assuming the existence of God by no means fixes the problem.