DOMA has started to fall.

[Martin TK]

...Or we could be open about things and just say that the gay marriage thing is truly about attacking Christians and keep up that attack until we have the end times reality of the open attack that will happen to Christians that means that Jesus will soon return.

I'm not sure how I missed this other point, but how on earth does allowing strangers same-sex marriage attack you at all?

In the exact same way us being open about our atheism is an attack on Christianity.  Which is to say it really isn't, they just want an excuse for their intolerance.  Doesn't take much, apparently.

Here, Here, and a hundred kudos to you......

[Thumpalumpacus]

Gosh, you'd think an immortal and omnipotent god would find mortal laws rather trifling.

Who are these people, that they think God needs their assistance?

[elliebean]

Gosh, you'd think an immortal and omnipotent god would find mortal laws rather trifling.

Who are these people, that they think God needs their assistance?

Given his track record, it isn't surprising that they wouldn't be that confident in his ability to intervene in earthly matters.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Gosh, you'd think an immortal and omnipotent god would find mortal laws rather trifling.

Who are these people, that they think God needs their assistance?

Given his track record, it isn't surprising that they wouldn't be that confident in his ability to intervene in earthly matters.

I stand corrected.

[GAYtheist]

Thumpy, why are you trying to persuade a Christian on some kind of religious grounds? Their religious arguments and reasons shouldn't matter that much in this debate, since this ought to--and will have to be--decided on constitutional grounds (and there is no ‘christ·ian’ in “con·sti·tut·ion”). This is America man, the land where only Christians should have to care what other Christians think.

You are absolutely right that we shouldn't have to care what Christians think, but, look at the sway they have over some people. Look at Prop. 8 in California and, for that matter, Question 1 in Maine. They spread lies that feed on the fears of people to get their votes. Some of them have no problem trespassing on grounds that they've been told to leave to get their signatures.

In jails you can increase your odds of probation if you "find God". In many states people can be fired or deplorable reasons, mostly because of its religious background. <Mind you on the last example, that's my personal opinion.>

We don't have to care what they think, but because of their strangle hold on this country, we are kinda forced to care, at the very least so we can stop them from running it any further into the ground.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Again, if you do not argue in their framework, they will assign you the quality of irrelevancy.  If you argue in terms of Christian morals and ethics, they must either change their behavior or abjure their dogma; but they cannot argue your points being irrelevant if you've taken the time to argue from their POV.

It's how judo works, it's how military campaigns work, and it's how cultural change works too.  MLK succeeded largely because he argued the equal rights case using the language of patriotism and Christianity.  What Southerner could argue that?  He spoke their language, seized their treasured causes, and turned those concepts against the racists who espoused them.

[KebertX]

Googling what DOMA stands for...

Defense of Marriage Act?

Oh! an anti-gay marriage thing!

YAY!  DOMA has started to fall.

I'll read those articles... later.

I'm lazy.

[parrotpirate]

National Organization for Marriage Decries
Boston Federal Judge's Decision Striking Down the Defense of Marriage Act

"A Boston judge has no moral right to decide the marriage question for the people of the U.S."
â€" Brian Brown, President, National Organization for Marriage

WASHINGTON, DC â€" The National Organization for Marriage (NOM) released the following statements today in response to a federal judge in Boston ruling the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) unconstitutional.

"Under the guidance of Elena Kagan’s brief that she filed when she was Solicitor General, Obama's justice department deliberately sabotaged this case," charged Brian Brown, President of NOM, referring to the Justice Department's brief which described DOMA as discriminatory. Despite the explicit language in DOMA that the law was designed to protect children's right to their mothers and fathers, the judge disavowed that DOMA has anything to do with responsible procreation. "With only Obama to defend DOMA, this federal judge has taken the extraordinary step of overturning a law passed by huge bipartisan majorities and signed into law by Pres. Clinton in 1996. A single federal judge in Boston has no moral right to decide the definition of marriage for the people of the United States," Brown continued.

"Does this federal judge want to start another culture war?" asked Maggie Gallagher, Chairman of NOM. "Does he really want another Roe. v. Wade? The simple fact is that the right of the federal government to define marriage for the purposes of its federal law and federal territories has been clear since the late 19th century, when Congress banned polygamy. Only an incompetent defense could have lost this case. We expect to win in a higher court."

http://rubyurl.com/JAzl

The culture war moves on then.  Soon we can have a viewpoint of a minority that will be forced on everybody in the name of intolerance of intolerance.[/quote]
Get real,it's the intolerant conservative Christian viewpoint that is in the minority today. They just tend to make the most noise.

[parrotpirate]

It never fails to amaze me how some people feel justified in wanting to control other people's lives.  What the hell?  They hide behind the bible, lies about children of same sex couples being messed up, anything they can throw out there when in reality they're just bigots trying to control someone else's life because they, for whatever reason,think they have that right.  You can rest assured that future generations will look back on these people with shame, the same way we regard those jerks who tried to use the bible to justify not allowing interracial marriages.  It's blind ignorance and hate dressed up like concern topped off with a hey-god-makes-the-rules-I-just-enforce-them attitude that allows for total lack of accountability.

On it's most basic level, that is what religion is all about: control of others by the church. The problem we have in this country right now is that we have a small but very vocal minority of right wing conservative Christians who want to force their views on the rest of us. I just don't understand how the US, which at one time was probably one of the most progressive places  in the world has let these backwards ignorant people so hijack the national discussion on issues like this. If the Jesus freaks want to follow their "Gods law" let them, but last I checked nobody voted for "God" either for President or to any legislative post in the Federal or any state government anywhere in the country. I'm pretty sure that means the rest of us should follow the laws passed by our government. (And of course work to change the oppressive,backwards ones like DOMA, DADT, and the Arizona immigration law.) If we are going to move forward in any real way as a society, we need to become MORE open and tolerant, not less. For what it's worth I am a 40-something working-class white guy, from the mid-west, straight and happily UN-married to the same partner for over 15 years.

[Thumpalumpacus]

It always cracked me up that Christians would try to enforce their religion through law anyway, as if their god if powerless to change mortal affairs.

Wait a minute ....