What is your opinion of Richard Dawkins

[Martin TK]

I think Richard Dawkins is a brilliant scientist.  I do think that he can become a bit zealous in his rail against religion but, hey, that's his thing.

I agree Squid, that's his thing.

[KebertX]

He's an exceedingly intelligent dude, and one of the biggest intellectual forces for Atheism of our generation. The God Delusion's an awesome book!

That being said, I get the sense that he is a guy who really hates religion. Like really fucking despises any non-scientific conclusion that anyone has ever come to. He's also attacked psychics and astrologists with the same malice he holds for the Abrahmic Religions.  He has no respect whatsoever, and seems to desire the complete destruction of the whole damn concept of religion.

He would never admit that religion has done good things, like built schools, hospitals, feed the hungry, donate billions to charity, develop impoverished nations, bring people together, and enrich our lives with The Inebriated Feeling of Having Our Minds Filled With Untrue Hope.

Religious extremists can be dangerous and destructive. And the things they're blowing shit up over are basically old fairy tales. But he is so deluded for thinking that this justifies the total abolition of all religion.  He's an evolutionary biologist, he doesn't have any expertise in Philosophical or Sociological aspects of religion, but he considers himself an expert.

He has the expertise to completely balk creation myths, but that's about it.  He can only say that there is no god based on lack of scientific evidence (and the fact that the god of the bible is a megalomanic) Just because scripture isn't true, doesn't mean there is definitely no god.  I don't think people need to believe in god, but it is the most poignant fairy tale in all history, and it can't be balked with the ease that Richard Dawkins thinks it can.

Faith is an appeal to a person's emotions, not the intellect. Richard Dawkins is arrogant enough to think that intellect alone can reign in the complexity of faith, and treats those who have it as if they were idiots. Love, and happiness, and friendship are just as illogical as the concept of God (Granted: Love, happiness, and friendship don't assert the existence of things that aren't real, but they don't necessarily make any more fundamental sense.) My point is, just because something is illogical isn't grounds to destroy it.  We can remove practices that hold back society, WITHOUT destroying spiritual faith.

That's all I've got to say...

[Thumpalumpacus]

Intellect is not apposed to faith; intellect is apposed to emotion.  Skepticism is apposed to faith.

[Martin TK]

He's an exceedingly intelligent dude, and one of the biggest intellectual forces for Atheism of our generation. The God Delusion's an awesome book!

That being said, I get the sense that he is a guy who really hates religion. Like really fucking despises any non-scientific conclusion that anyone has ever come to. He's also attacked psychics and astrologists with the same malice he holds for the Abrahmic Religions.  He has no respect whatsoever, and seems to desire the complete destruction of the whole damn concept of religion.

He would never admit that religion has done good things, like built schools, hospitals, feed the hungry, donate billions to charity, develop impoverished nations, bring people together, and enrich our lives with The Inebriated Feeling of Having Our Minds Filled With Untrue Hope.

Religious extremists can be dangerous and destructive. And the things they're blowing shit up over are basically old fairy tales. But he is so deluded for thinking that this justifies the total abolition of all religion.  He's an evolutionary biologist, he doesn't have any expertise in Philosophical or Sociological aspects of religion, but he considers himself an expert.

He has the expertise to completely balk creation myths, but that's about it.  He can only say that there is no god based on lack of scientific evidence (and the fact that the god of the bible is a megalomanic) Just because scripture isn't true, doesn't mean there is definitely no god.  I don't think people need to believe in god, but it is the most poignant fairy tale in all history, and it can't be balked with the ease that Richard Dawkins thinks it can.

Faith is an appeal to a person's emotions, not the intellect. Richard Dawkins is arrogant enough to think that intellect alone can reign in the complexity of faith, and treats those who have it as if they were idiots. Love, and happiness, and friendship are just as illogical as the concept of God (Granted: Love, happiness, and friendship don't assert the existence of things that aren't real, but they don't necessarily make any more fundamental sense.) My point is, just because something is illogical isn't grounds to destroy it.  We can remove practices that hold back society, WITHOUT destroying spiritual faith.

That's all I've got to say...

I kind of agree with Dawkins that ALL religion is inherently wrong, mainly because at it's core religion seeks to control the masses and stifle free thought.  Do I believe that the world will ever be rid of religon, probably not, though I wish it would.  There are FAR more reasons to hate religion that to respect it.  As to the good that has been done, my response is this.  Do you know how many millions were spent in California to fight the Gay Marriage issue?  Those millions could have fed many people, that money could have provided health care to how many children, how many homes could have been built using that money.  I believe that churches have overstepped their intent and purpose, by attempting to control government, particularly in the US.  Just my rant for the day.  

[KebertX]

I kind of agree with Dawkins that ALL religion is inherently wrong, mainly because at it's core religion seeks to control the masses and stifle free thought.  Do I believe that the world will ever be rid of religon, probably not, though I wish it would.  There are FAR more reasons to hate religion that to respect it.  As to the good that has been done, my response is this.  Do you know how many millions were spent in California to fight the Gay Marriage issue?  Those millions could have fed many people, that money could have provided health care to how many children, how many homes could have been built using that money.  I believe that churches have overstepped their intent and purpose, by attempting to control government, particularly in the US.  Just my rant for the day.  

There's more to religion than myths and dogma. We have every reason in the world to hate Religious Intolerance, but at it's core (buried deep deep deep down in many cases) There is a spark of something intrinsically good that we shouldn't be so quick to throw away.  By all means get rid of the psychopathic bullshit that makes people bomb buses and illegalize homosexuality.  But let the people who really want to keep their God. And don't throw out spirituality. I sound like a religious person when I talk about this: but people who want to should be  given the opportunity to tap in to the spiritual parts of their mind. Because we do have it in our minds (some might call it imaginary, but...) And I think we might want to hold on to that for the time being.

So they've done some reall sick twisted shit in the past few thousand years, but I have to give credit where credit is due. On a day to day basis, for the average religious person, Faith (even if it's nothing more than False Hope) is a nice thing to have. If we can remove the myths from the core spiritual beliefs, I think it'd be worth it.

[Martin TK]

I kind of agree with Dawkins that ALL religion is inherently wrong, mainly because at it's core religion seeks to control the masses and stifle free thought.  Do I believe that the world will ever be rid of religon, probably not, though I wish it would.  There are FAR more reasons to hate religion that to respect it.  As to the good that has been done, my response is this.  Do you know how many millions were spent in California to fight the Gay Marriage issue?  Those millions could have fed many people, that money could have provided health care to how many children, how many homes could have been built using that money.  I believe that churches have overstepped their intent and purpose, by attempting to control government, particularly in the US.  Just my rant for the day.  

There's more to religion than myths and dogma. We have every reason in the world to hate Religious Intolerance, but at it's core (buried deep deep deep down in many cases) There is a spark of something intrinsically good that we shouldn't be so quick to throw away.  By all means get rid of the psychopathic bullshit that makes people bomb buses and illegalize homosexuality.  But let the people who really want to keep their God. And don't throw out spirituality. I sound like a religious person when I talk about this: but people who want to should be  given the opportunity to tap in to the spiritual parts of their mind. Because we do have it in our minds (some might call it imaginary, but...) And I think we might want to hold on to that for the time being.

So they've done some reall sick twisted shit in the past few thousand years, but I have to give credit where credit is due. On a day to day basis, for the average religious person, Faith (even if it's nothing more than False Hope) is a nice thing to have. If we can remove the myths from the core spiritual beliefs, I think it'd be worth it.

I have to respectfully disagree with almost everything you have said, and I could cite probably a hundred reasons why I feel this way.  Religion at it's core posions EVERYTHING on earth, everything.  Tantum religio potiut suadere malorum. (To such heights of evil are men driven by religion)

IF we remove the myths from the core spiritual beliefs, RELIGION would have NOTHING left.  We would simply have humanism.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I kind of agree with Dawkins that ALL religion is inherently wrong, mainly because at it's core religion seeks to control the masses and stifle free thought.  Do I believe that the world will ever be rid of religon, probably not, though I wish it would.  There are FAR more reasons to hate religion that to respect it.  As to the good that has been done, my response is this.  Do you know how many millions were spent in California to fight the Gay Marriage issue?  Those millions could have fed many people, that money could have provided health care to how many children, how many homes could have been built using that money.  I believe that churches have overstepped their intent and purpose, by attempting to control government, particularly in the US.  Just my rant for the day.  

There's more to religion than myths and dogma. We have every reason in the world to hate Religious Intolerance, but at it's core (buried deep deep deep down in many cases) There is a spark of something intrinsically good that we shouldn't be so quick to throw away.  By all means get rid of the psychopathic bullshit that makes people bomb buses and illegalize homosexuality.  But let the people who really want to keep their God. And don't throw out spirituality. I sound like a religious person when I talk about this: but people who want to should be  given the opportunity to tap in to the spiritual parts of their mind. Because we do have it in our minds (some might call it imaginary, but...) And I think we might want to hold on to that for the time being.

So they've done some reall sick twisted shit in the past few thousand years, but I have to give credit where credit is due. On a day to day basis, for the average religious person, Faith (even if it's nothing more than False Hope) is a nice thing to have. If we can remove the myths from the core spiritual beliefs, I think it'd be worth it.

Matt 7:18

[pinkocommie]

If the only way religion can be considered good is to remove everything that makes it a religion (the mythology, dogma, etc.), but still call it religion, then that doesn't make religion a good thing, it makes what religion has been changed into a good thing.  If you take a thistle, remove the thorns, make the flower bigger and smell better and make them so they don't grow as much like weeds, you've made the thistle into something else, you haven't proven that thistles can be a welcomed part of a garden.

[KebertX]

Matt 7:18

The bible is evil and shitty.  That passage is unintelligible, because Hell isn't real.

If the only way religion can be considered good is to remove everything that makes it a religion (the mythology, dogma, etc.), but still call it religion, then that doesn't make religion a good thing, it makes what religion has been changed into a good thing.  If you take a thistle, remove the thorns, make the flower bigger and smell better and make them so they don't grow as much like weeds, you've made the thistle into something else, you haven't proven that thistles can be a welcomed part of a garden.

I see your point. But that's really what I'm saying. I think that instead of everyone giving up in religion and throwing it away (It's going to happen someday, but in the mean time...) the first step in the transition to logic and reality would be to get people to open their eyes to those aspects of their religion that are just... evil.  But removing the evil from a religion doesn't get rid of the whole thing.  There is some good in all the religions. Hell, I've even found a few specks of merit in Satanist literature...

Here's a hypothetical situation so I can try to illustrate what I mean.  A religion has 3 parts: A Moral Code, A Philosophical Construct, and a Mythology.  Dogma isn't an integral part of religion, so let's just throw that out. Imagine that the churches and brainwashed fundamentalists could give up on dogma overnight without a fight.  Now we have a tolerant functioning religion.

Next, let's imagine that people could suddenly wake up and realize the Mythology isn't actual historical fact. No more Jonah in the Big Fish, no more Sky Man on Mt. Zion, no more Splitting the Red Sea, or Noah's Ark, or Walls of Jericho Tumbling down, and Especially no Genesis in the Garden of Eden. People keep telling the stories, but now they realize that they're nothing but fables, and take this stuff with a grain of salt.  Once again, we pretend people are capable of this overnight with no whining and bitching about why we should believe in a talking snake.  Now all the Unicorns, Sea Monsters, and Giants are gone and people are entirely free to accept scientific progress.

Now, there's nothing left but Philosophy and Morality.  Maybe we build on the Philosophy, update the Morality for the 21st century, but all in all, these bits aren't so bad.  So if the Philosophy dictates a God, and a Soul, then why not? This religion is legitimately not hurting anyone any more.  This is my vision of what religion should be, and that's what I'm talking about when I say: Don't just throw it away, we could use some of the comfort that religion gives us, even if it is false hope. I wouldn't want to see people move past religion before it got to that point.

So yes, I've taken a thistle and turned it into something else. I'm not trying to prove the thistle was good, I'm just saying it's worth changing.  Now I realize that this hypothetical isn't realistic. Every conservative believer in the world would fight like hell to keep things the way they've always been. But this is the only way religion will ever progress, and if it is absolutely not willing to progress, it will fade out of existence. I wouldn't complain if that happened and the world were free of religion. But I would think it a shame to see religion disappear into the shadows without realizing it's potential to be something that's actually positive in the world.

[pinkocommie]

I don't see any of the good qualities that do exist within religions being specific to religion though.  Humans are good.  Some humans are religious.  Therefore, some good is created in the name of religion.  I honestly don't see a loss of anything worth keeping that is specific to religion and would be lost and unattainable were religion entirely abandoned.  Do I want religion to be abandoned personally?  I don't care.  I grew up an atheist around Unitarians, probably the most lovey, happy, inclusive, non judgmental religious people out there, I had no idea religious people were actually far crueler than that until I was older so I understand the good people who aren't hurting anyone angle and I agree that they should be able to do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone.  I just don't agree that something would be lost if religion were abandoned.

Getting back to Dawkins, that's one of the things I think he and I really agree on.  It's selling humans short to just assume we as a species somehow need false hope, which is essentially what I see religion as being.  False hope that makes big bucks.  Why is that worth saving?

[KDbeads]

Matt 7:18

The bible is evil and shitty.  That passage is unintelligible, because Hell isn't real.

Ok.... you lost me.... what does hell have to do with this passage  

Matt 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[KebertX]

I don't see any of the good qualities that do exist within religions being specific to religion though. Humans are good. Some humans are religious. Therefore, some good is created in the name of religion. I honestly don't see a loss of anything worth keeping that is specific to religion and would be lost and unattainable were religion entirely abandoned. Do I want religion to be abandoned personally? I don't care. I grew up an atheist around Unitarians, probably the most lovey, happy, inclusive, non judgmental religious people out there, I had no idea religious people were actually far crueler than that until I was older so I understand the good people who aren't hurting anyone angle and I agree that they should be able to do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone. I just don't agree that something would be lost if religion were abandoned.

Getting back to Dawkins, that's one of the things I think he and I really agree on. It's selling humans short to just assume we as a species somehow need false hope, which is essentially what I see religion as being. False hope that makes big bucks. Why is that worth saving?

It makes people feel good?  You and I understand that religion is an unnecessary waste of time for society. But for billions of people on the planet who subscribe to some religion... well, it's important to them. Even if they are persisting under delusion, that delusion makes them happy.  I consider it an inevitability that one day people will break free of all superstition. I just have hope that before religion is gone for good it will clean up it's act. Turn into something beneficial to the human race.  Reform itself of all it's problems before humanity realizes it doesn't need it any more.

Specific to religion. Okay with that extra bit of criteria I suppose you have me: All the good things about religion can be found in other things.  But religious faith (not a GOOD thing per say) is unique.  It gives people hope, (even if that hope isn't based on anything externally verifiable, it is still there inside the person's mind). Spirituality is a special bit of reality that appeals exclusively to your emotions. Inside your own mind, you can make whatever you want of it.  It isn't real, but anything you have faith in is as real as it needs to be.  Spirituality doesn't need religion.

Am I making the least bit of sense? People can make what they want out of these things, and that's okay. It's when a specific spiritual philosophy gets hijacked by religion that we see the problems that we do today.  Humans have had long relationship with religion. In the next few centuries, I'm pretty sure it's going to end. It's the dawn of the age of the Internet. Knowledge is free, education is simpler than ever. Logic will inevitably win out over superstition.  But before this happens, I, personally, would like a fond farewell to the age of religion. Just to be able to look at the state of religion in the world and see something that isn't so bad.

I'm not saying save religion, in the sense that it should be preserved forever.  Just preserve the fond parts at the core of spirituality for now, as religion goes through massive reform.  I can't describe it properly, but having spiritual fulfillment is something that billions of people crave.  I know what it feels like, and it's harder to get over than God.  There is intrinsic good there, and it deserves to rise to the to surface before the very end.  I say fix the good, abolish the bad, and let the natural progression of human reason sort out the rest.  Just because it isn't real outside the human mind doesn't mean people shouldn't believe in it.

Instead of Attacking belief in God, like Richard Dawkins, Attack Dogma, Intolerance, and Myths.  God is more than just Dogma or Mythology, it's slightly more complex.  Let people have their idea of God, it's not hurting anything on it's own.  What needs to be done is the systematic dismantling of Organized Religion. Churches have got to go, god can stick around until people outsmart belief on their own.  It's not to be attacked, people have to define that reality for themselves.  On the question of Religion, I'm more inclined to agree with the Dalai Lama than Richard Dawkins.

[Davin]

"We are oft to blame in this 'tis too much proved that with devotions visage and pious actions we do sugar o're the devil himself." Hamlet Act 3 Scene 1... Also from V for Vendetta.

[KebertX]

Matt 7:18

The bible is evil and shitty.  That passage is unintelligible, because Hell isn't real.

Ok.... you lost me.... what does hell have to do with this passage  

Matt 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Read in context, it's saying that people are all like trees. Good trees (trees that accept Jesus as their Savior) can do no evil. And corrupt trees (No Jesus) can do no good.  And when trees can bear no good fruit they get chopped down to feed the fire (OF HELL!!!)  So you need to be a Christian, or else you are incapable of doing the universe any good, and you go straight to hell.

The Bible is all Myths and Dogma.

[KebertX]

I have to respectfully disagree with almost everything you have said, and I could cite probably a hundred reasons why I feel this way.  Religion at it's core posions EVERYTHING on earth, everything.  Tantum religio potiut suadere malorum. (To such heights of evil are men driven by religion)

IF we remove the myths from the core spiritual beliefs, RELIGION would have NOTHING left.  We would simply have humanism.

I could spend forever trying to explain the way I regard religion and spirituality.

My intense love of religion is surpassed by nothing but my extreme hatred of religion. And My hatred of religion is only surpassed by my love of religion. It's a perfect Yin Yang of love and hate.