France on the verge of banning Islamic full veil.

[Tank]

I guess the obvious thing to point out here is that passages like the above are so open to interpretation that you could glean almost anything you want from that kind of writing. So, the original reason for the male dominated religion of islam to force their women to hide under cloth is the above tenuous nonsense?

And many islamic women will fight for this right...

 

[Dretlin]

I found an interview with the "vice-chair of British Muslims for Secular Democracy". I do not know anything about this organization so I am unsure of the creditability of this interview.

The interview in question (is quite short) and is the second one down on this page. The top one is a pro argument while the lower one is against.

[SSY]

I'm for the ban, even with a nagging unease. Quite simply, I can't imagine anything more isolationist and divisive than a tent with a couple of eye holes worn as a dress, not to mention the fact that talking to someone as if through a letterbox is quite unnerving.

The whole rationale behind it is also bewildering, "The women are so beautiful that to stop them getting harassed or the men getting tempted, the women shall wear garments to make them look as ridiculous as possible". I can't help but feel a little insulted at the insinuation that men wouldn't be able to hold themselves back either.

[Kylyssa]

I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of the ban.  

Gender discrimination really upsets me.  I was told I didn't need to bother with college because some man would take care of me.  I won't go into it right now but that attitude screwed me out of two overlapping full-ride scholarships.  Yes, I'm bitter.

We're talking about giving religious gender discrimination special protection.

But I believe in freedom of religion.

But then again, I believe that raising a child in a religion that fosters gender discrimination is child abuse.

Then there's personal freedom.

And there's the worry that if the veil were made illegal in public places how many Muslim women and girls would be forbidden to leave their homes?

I would love for the practice of veiling to disappear but I don't know if banning it would work.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm for the ban, even with a nagging unease. Quite simply, I can't imagine anything more isolationist and divisive than a tent with a couple of eye holes worn as a dress, not to mention the fact that talking to someone as if through a letterbox is quite unnerving.

The whole rationale behind it is also bewildering, "The women are so beautiful that to stop them getting harassed or the men getting tempted, the women shall wear garments to make them look as ridiculous as possible". I can't help but feel a little insulted at the insinuation that men wouldn't be able to hold themselves back either.

My feelings on the issue are mixed, but I'm real uncomfortable with making fashion a subject of law.  I do, however, think that they should be banned in buildings or areas with a raised risk of crime, like banks, government buildings, airports, etc.

[Dretlin]

Islamic Burka Ban: 67% Of Britons Agree - Apparently.

[Rooker]

When I look at someone wearing a burqa, I see Lavar Burton wearing a slave collar. It disgusts me that anyone can be forced to wear something like that.

On the other hand, I can't support the idea of outlawing it. Outlawing the burqa just exchanges religious oppression for government oppression. It's not the government's business to decide how people dress. That's what they do in the parts of the world where women can be executed for not wearing this ridiculous costume. Do we want to lower ourselves to the same standard as a clique of theocratic dictators who long for the good ol' days of the 6th century?

If France wants to deal with Islamic oppression of women in their country, they should come down harshly on all forms of discrimination and violence against women from those muslims who demand they wear a burqa. If a man attacks a woman for not wearing one, put him in jail for assault and add an extra 10 years because it was religiously motivated. Attack the problem, not the victims of the problem.

[Tank]

^^^ Well said.

[The Black Jester]

When I look at someone wearing a burqa, I see Lavar Burton wearing a slave collar. It disgusts me that anyone can be forced to wear something like that.

On the other hand, I can't support the idea of outlawing it. Outlawing the burqa just exchanges religious oppression for government oppression. It's not the government's business to decide how people dress. That's what they do in the parts of the world where women can be executed for not wearing this ridiculous costume. Do we want to lower ourselves to the same standard as a clique of theocratic dictators who long for the good ol' days of the 6th century?

If France wants to deal with Islamic oppression of women in their country, they should come down harshly on all forms of discrimination and violence against women from those muslims who demand they wear a burqa. If a man attacks a woman for not wearing one, put him in jail for assault and add an extra 10 years because it was religiously motivated. Attack the problem, not the victims of the problem.

+1

[KebertX]

I don't know how to feel about this. Men shouldn't be aloud to force women to wear a full body veil, but don't you freethinkers think women should be aloud to make their own decisions about what to wear? Then again, head scarves are still aloud, so this would only outlaw the types that cover the full body and the face, which I do consider extreme in certain situations. In Saudi Arabia, it's perfectly acceptable to express your modesty by not sticking out of the crowd, but in France, wearing a full body veil has the opposite effect: drawing a lot of attention to yourself.  So you can just put on a Hijab, express your modesty without rubbing everyone's nose in it.

Let's forget about the Middle East for a second (countries where they have sharia law). In 80% of the Muslim world, women are really encouraged to make their own decision about whether or not to cover their head.  Most of them do, (not because of gender inequality, or oppression, or because some man is forcing them). They do it because they want to, because it's suggested in the Qu'ran, and most women in their family do as well. There's a decent argument to be made for the whole 'modesty' thing. Freeing yourself from superficialness, or objectification.

In countries where you are made to cover yourself, you get the opposite. It's superficial and objectifying to tell the women of your community that they have to dress a certain way, or else their whores who will have full penalty of the law imposed on them. Which brings me full circle back to Fracne, who are telling the women in their community that they CAN'T dress a certain way, or else their brainwashed disruptions... who will penalty of the law enforced on them.

I'm all in favor of not allowing men to force women to wear full body veils, but I truly think the women should be aloud to wear what they want.  I don't see it as brainwashing, but just a different perspective on appearance from a different culture. That being said, I think it would be interesting to start a new thread for why Muslim Women would want to wear head scarves, or even burkas.

[Rooker]

And already we're off the races:

France has first 'burka rage' incident
A 60-year-old lawyer ripped a Muslim woman's Islamic veil off in a row in a clothing shop in what police say is France's first case of "burka rage".

[karadan]

And already we're off the races:

France has first 'burka rage' incident
A 60-year-old lawyer ripped a Muslim woman's Islamic veil off in a row in a clothing shop in what police say is France's first case of "burka rage".

Bloody hell! Lets hope it is an isolated incident.

I didn't know Belgium had banned the veil in public places already.