A new thought on Jesus

[Martin TK]

To those who responded from the Theist side, your responses are typical and disputable at every turn.  I'm not attacking your views, you are very welcome to them, and I do appreciate the effort in posting them, you would have done your duty to attempt conversion well, it's just that none of your answers really answer anything.  Your fall back position is always the bible, and theologians fight among themselves over the reliability of that book, and the attempt to explain god's intentions is somewhat laughable since the "man" himself hasn't spoken to anyone in like 2000 years.

I guess my position is simple:  IF god is the god of mankind, and man can only get to god through Jesus, then god is the god of Christianity, period....  At least that is the premise of the billboards that I have read.  Having said this, I then have to believe that the Christian god has no more validity than does the god of Islam, Hindu, or the Grecko-Roman gods.  A very strong argument, much like those made by our theists today, could be made by believers in any religion over the entire history of mankind.

What is it then that distinguishes ONE god over the others, and if you attempt to answer this, please do it from the POV of all gods, or no gods.  Thank you.

They are all a manifestation of the one self that we are all modeled after (although many times people don't use these tools to better themself, and instead use them for destructive behavior) imo

I don't believe there is necessarily any one true or right way, they are whatever you make of them really......they are all different paths that lead to someone being able to find themself.

One final thought on this and then I'm going to leave it be and move on.

It seems to me that there is a recurrent theme in all this, "god's gift" and that it must be accepted to be received.  Isn't that just saying the same old same old, that HIS love and forgiveness are conditional, therefore, god's love can not be claimed as unconditional love.  I know unconditional love, it's what I give to my three children, even when they turn their backs on me because I am an atheist.  I would die for any of them, I would give everything I have for them, I would NEVER want to see them suffer, I would NEVER want to be the cause of their pain; that is unconditional love.  Then again, I am not a jealous father, a vengeful father, or one who tells my kids they have to bow down to me or even acknowledge the gifts I send them.  I just love them, period.  If I can do it, and I am a mere mortal, why can't god?  It's not that hard, really. :brick:

[Martin TK]

To those who responded from the Theist side, your responses are typical and disputable at every turn.  I'm not attacking your views, you are very welcome to them, and I do appreciate the effort in posting them, you would have done your duty to attempt conversion well, it's just that none of your answers really answer anything.  Your fall back position is always the bible, and theologians fight among themselves over the reliability of that book, and the attempt to explain god's intentions is somewhat laughable since the "man" himself hasn't spoken to anyone in like 2000 years.

I guess my position is simple:  IF god is the god of mankind, and man can only get to god through Jesus, then god is the god of Christianity, period....  At least that is the premise of the billboards that I have read.  Having said this, I then have to believe that the Christian god has no more validity than does the god of Islam, Hindu, or the Grecko-Roman gods.  A very strong argument, much like those made by our theists today, could be made by believers in any religion over the entire history of mankind.

What is it then that distinguishes ONE god over the others, and if you attempt to answer this, please do it from the POV of all gods, or no gods.  Thank you.

They are all a manifestation of the one self that we are all modeled after (although many times people don't use these tools to better themself, and instead use them for destructive behavior) imo

I don't believe there is necessarily any one true or right way, they are whatever you make of them really......they are all different paths that lead to someone being able to find themself.

One final thought on this and then I'm going to leave it be and move on.

It seems to me that there is a recurrent theme in all this, "god's gift" and that it must be accepted to be received.  Isn't that just saying the same old same old, that HIS love and forgiveness are conditional, therefore, god's love can not be claimed as unconditional love.  I know unconditional love, it's what I give to my three children, even when they turn their backs on me because I am an atheist.  I would die for any of them, I would give everything I have for them, I would NEVER want to see them suffer, I would NEVER want to be the cause of their pain; that is unconditional love.  Then again, I am not a jealous father, a vengeful father, or one who tells my kids they have to bow down to me or even acknowledge the gifts I send them.  I just love them, period.  If I can do it, and I am a mere mortal, why can't god?  It's not that hard, really. :brick:

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm rather pressed for time, son has football practice, but this jumped out at me:

And let me point out at this time that the idea that God is all knowing does not mean you do not have a free will. I could have perfect knowledge of everything you are going to do in the next three days. Does that mean that you have been robed of your free will in any way? If you had perfect access to my perfect knowledge of the next three days then you would be robed of your free will. But you don't and thus regardless of any perfect knowledge of your future you have free will to make your own choices. And what if our future is more like a matrix of quantum super positions where a free will choice collapses the wave and sets that aspect of your future. An all knowing being could see ALL the quantum super positions simultaneously and still you would have a matrix of possible choices that require the activation of your will to collapse the wave.

Aside from the misunderstood fancy talk for "no one can know the future", here's why an omnipotent ommnibeneficent god is incompatible with free will:

If he knows the choices we are to make, we cannot help but make those choices, or else he is not omniscient.  If he knows the likelihood of our making those choices, but doesn't know certainly, then he is still not omniscient.  If he knows our choices perfectly, and cannot change then, then he is not omnipotent.  If he knows our choices will result, and still lets us, say, gas 5.8 million Jews to death, then he is certainly not good.

[Prea]

You do realize that your arguments are all circular, you keep rolling over the same old tired arguments time and time and time again, answering NOTHING.

That's exactly the point

[Tank]

You do realize that your arguments are all circular, you keep rolling over the same old tired arguments time and time and time again, answering NOTHING.

That's exactly the point

You should be in marketing (if you aren't already), what a brilliant example of turning a vice into a virtue to fool customers!

[pinkocommie]

You do realize that your arguments are all circular, you keep rolling over the same old tired arguments time and time and time again, answering NOTHING.

That's exactly the point

So you admit that your arguments are circular and that you aren't answering anything, which means you're not here to talk, you're here to preach.  That's not what this place is for.  But no worries!  The internets are vast and endless - I'm sure you'll find some place willing to buy whatever it is you're selling.