Arizona's Illegal Immigration Law

[pinkocommie]

I'm sure white people get asked for their passport all the time.  Riiiight.

[Beast]

I'm sure white people get asked for their passport all the time.  Riiiight.

When they don't provide a state issued DL, yes. Like I said about the Brit, he came here illegally so he obviously didn't have the right paper work in the first place. Stop a ways back, driver was from South Africa(white guy with a funny brit accent) only had a country ID, so he had to provide a passport.

[Davin]

I'm sure white people get asked for their passport all the time.  Riiiight.

When they don't provide a state issued DL, yes. Like I said about the Brit, he came here illegally so he obviously didn't have the right paper work in the first place. Stop a ways back, driver was from South Africa(white guy with a funny brit accent) only had a country ID, so he had to provide a passport.

I never give my ID when I've done nothing wrong. Police officers do not have the right to just ask me for my ID whenever they feel like it, so if they ask, I say no. If they pester me I ask them for a the probable cause and/or reasonable purpose for the search while I write down their badge numbers.

They don't need probable cause or a reason to search if I volunteer to be searched or to offer up my ID, but they do if I refuse. And I refuse to allow myself to be harassed by any one, especially six foot assholes with a badge and a gun. If it takes a police officer a suspension or to lose his/her job to learn that the badge doesn't mean they get to do whatever they want to people, then I'll do it. I personally know some really good police officers and some alright ones, but just like any other population sample, there's going to be some assholes, some good ones and everything in between, I just happen to get stopped by a lot of the assholes.

Where I live, all people aged 18+ must carry a Government issued photo ID, however police officers are not allowed to enforce it primarily, only secondarily. Meaning that if ID is required (like when an officer is issuing a traffic ticket), then they can enforce that law, but they can't just go around making sure everyone has their ID on them due to the fourth and fourteenth amendments.

[Beast]

I'm sure white people get asked for their passport all the time.  Riiiight.

When they don't provide a state issued DL, yes. Like I said about the Brit, he came here illegally so he obviously didn't have the right paper work in the first place. Stop a ways back, driver was from South Africa(white guy with a funny brit accent) only had a country ID, so he had to provide a passport.

I never give my ID when I've done nothing wrong. Police officers do not have the right to just ask me for my ID whenever they feel like it, so if they ask, I say no. If they pester me I ask them for a the probable cause and/or reasonable purpose for the search while I write down their badge numbers.

They don't need probable cause or a reason to search if I volunteer to be searched or to offer up my ID, but they do if I refuse. And I refuse to allow myself to be harassed by any one, especially six foot assholes with a badge and a gun. If it takes a police officer a suspension or to lose his/her job to learn that the badge doesn't mean they get to do whatever they want to people, then I'll do it. I personally know some really good police officers and some alright ones, but just like any other population sample, there's going to be some assholes, some good ones and everything in between, I just happen to get stopped by a lot of the assholes.

Where I live, all people aged 18+ must carry a Government issued photo ID, however police officers are not allowed to enforce it primarily, only secondarily. Meaning that if ID is required (like when an officer is issuing a traffic ticket), then they can enforce that law, but they can't just go around making sure everyone has their ID on them due to the fourth and fourteenth amendments.

Davin, I think you missed the entire premise under which you can be asked for your ID.

[Davin]

Davin, I think you missed the entire premise under which you can be asked for your ID.

I get asked for ID by police officers quite often when I've done nothing wrong, which premise am I missing?

[Beast]

Davin, I think you missed the entire premise under which you can be asked for your ID.

I get asked for ID by police officers quite often when I've done nothing wrong, which premise am I missing?

What were you involved with when you were asked? Just walking down the sidewalk and a cruiser pulls up to block you off and demand you ID?

[Davin]

Davin, I think you missed the entire premise under which you can be asked for your ID.

I get asked for ID by police officers quite often when I've done nothing wrong, which premise am I missing?

What were you involved with when you were asked? Just walking down the sidewalk and a cruiser pulls up to block you off and demand you ID?

Yes. That is the exact situation almost all of the time... well half the time I'm skateboarding.

[Sophus]

On a semi-related note: today a friend of mine says he got stopped for, I kid not, "looking too pissed off".  

[Beast]

On a semi-related note: today a friend of mine says he got stopped for, I kid not, "looking too pissed off".  lol, ya that's retarded.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I used to wear long hair as a kid.  That always got me stopped, and hey always wanted to pat me down, too; back then all long-hairs were druggies, in their pointy little minds.

When I cut my hair, the stops mysteriously, well, stopped.

[RestoringTally]

I used to wear long hair as a kid.  That always got me stopped, and hey always wanted to pat me down, too; back then all long-hairs were druggies, in their pointy little minds.

When I cut my hair, the stops mysteriously, well, stopped.

That's the answer! We just need a way to make everyone look like everyone else!

Seriously, that is the problem with profiling. Probable cause should not be based on a person's appearance but, instead, on what that person does.

[Sophus]

Here's the latest on Sheriff Joe Arpaio:

A federal investigation of a controversial Arizona sheriff known for tough immigration enforcement has intensified in recent days, escalating the conflict between the Obama administration and officials in the border state.

Justice Department officials in Washington have issued a rare threat to sue Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio if he does not cooperate with their investigation of whether he discriminates against Hispanics. The civil rights inquiry is one of two that target the man who calls himself "America's toughest sheriff." A federal grand jury in Phoenix is examining whether Arpaio has used his power to investigate and intimidate political opponents and whether his office misappropriated government money, sources said.

________________________________________________________________________

And I think Conor Oberst makes a good point that I hadn't thought of in this video from the Concert for Equality. With employers being targeted for hiring any illegal immigrants they may avoid hiring any one who is of "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal alien. Because of course there are misconceptions of the law out there and with the threat of a lawsuit being a possibility for anyone who's not doing their part to crack down on illegal immigration paranoia will be on the rise. To be clear, in theory, this law should not cause this to happen. Unfortunately, reality is different. Similarly I can only imagine how many people would be pulled over for giving a ride to a latino, since they're not allowed to give rides to anyone who could be an illegal immigrant. I wonder how this would play out for bus drivers. Paranoia=bad.

A big kudos to those who were able to prevent the copy-cat law from making itself a reality in Fremont Nebraska.

[Thumpalumpacus]

With employers being targeted for hiring any illegal immigrants they may avoid hiring any one who is of "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal alien. Because of course there are misconceptions of the law out there and with the threat of a lawsuit being a possibility for anyone who's not doing their part to crack down on illegal immigration paranoia will be on the rise. To be clear, in theory, this law should not cause this to happen. Unfortunately, reality is different.

It would appear to be a possibility.  Speaking as a retail manager who has unwittingly hired illegals, I can tell you it never entered my mind to avoid Hispanics throughout the hiring process; being in a Southern-border state, that is literally not an option, as the vast majority of applicants for median jobs (say, $8 - 15 / hr) are Hispanic, and such discrimination would immediately be obvious.  

A cost-benefit analysis makes it plain that it's better to take the chance of hiring an illegal, and pay a little more to do post-hiring follow-up to ensure legal compliance, than to suffer a class-action lawsuit.

For this reason, it seems like the possibility,  while certainly extant, seems remote.

[Sophus]

With employers being targeted for hiring any illegal immigrants they may avoid hiring any one who is of "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal alien. Because of course there are misconceptions of the law out there and with the threat of a lawsuit being a possibility for anyone who's not doing their part to crack down on illegal immigration paranoia will be on the rise. To be clear, in theory, this law should not cause this to happen. Unfortunately, reality is different.

It would appear to be a possibility.  Speaking as a retail manager who has unwittingly hired illegals, I can tell you it never entered my mind to avoid Hispanics throughout the hiring process; being in a Southern-border state, that is literally not an option, as the vast majority of applicants for median jobs (say, $8 - 15 / hr) are Hispanic, and such discrimination would immediately be obvious.  

A cost-benefit analysis makes it plain that it's better to take the chance of hiring an illegal, and pay a little more to do post-hiring follow-up to ensure legal compliance, than to suffer a class-action lawsuit.

For this reason, it seems like the possibility,  while certainly extant, seems remote.

Ah, that's an astute point. There's the threat of a lawsuit on both sides. Hmm....

[Sophus]

Bill McCollum, a Republican running for governor in Florida, wants to bring this to the state:

The Florida proposal would, like Arizona's, require law enforcement officers to check the residency status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant in the course of a "lawful stop."

It would require state businesses to use a national registry to ensure new employees are legal and would increase penalties for illegal immigrants who commit other crimes. The bill would also require non-citizen immigrants to carry immigration documentation or face a misdemeanor charge that could carry up to 20 days in jail.

Though McCollum's office said in a statement that the legislation was adjusted to "strengthen it" against a possible court challenge, the proposal would go beyond Arizona's by letting judges consider a defendant's illegal immigrant status during bond proceedings.

I haven't been able to find the actual proposal online but indeed this sounds worse than Arizona's. 20 days in jail? lol