Historical Jesus

[Gawen]

Matthew will be back.

Sure about that? Been 6 days.

[Tank]

Matthew will be back.

Sure about that? Been 6 days.

I may have to revise my optimism to 'probably'.

[deekayfry]

Great stuff

Simply put to verify historical accuracy there needs to external verifiable references.  Such practices are still used today.

Things that could establish Jesus in history, to the extent that is reasonably accepted and verified

-Census data that establish lineage (to date this is vastly inconclusive)
-Official documents
-True first hand accounts from those who they themselves are verified.  Preferably accounts from non-interested parties.
-Physical artifacts, such as a place of residence and have things like inscriptions that have John, James, Jesus, Peter, etc.
-Legal records, after all, Jesus did defile the temple, such an event would have shown up somewhere
-Verifiable locations such as a well, a community location, etc.
-Artifacts such as monuments, coins, pottery, etc from the time period

So far, no one has found or presented anything that is convincing that Jesus existed.

[Martin TK]

I posted this reply on another thread, but I felt it would be served to repost it here.

I believe there were TWO Jesus' figures. One was a historic Jesus, a real Jewish teacher, who lived and taught, and was himself not a Christian but a practicing Jew. Then, there is the "other" Jesus, the Mythical Figure, the Jesus who performed miracles, who was born of a virgin, and who rose from the dead. This Jesus is a mythical construct by early Christians, his deeds, birth, and death/resurection were all embellished to give him "street creds" for the times. Most early Christians didn't think that 2000 years later there would even be a world, much less a religion called Christianity. Most early Christians were convinced that Jesus would return to earth in their lifetime, and guess what, that hasn't changed in 2,000 years. Christians, today, are convinced that Jesus will come again in their lifetime.

Most of the Jesus Myth was borrowed from early Pagan Religions. Early Christians were little more than a group of sects or cults, loosely woven together, at best, by the central belief in a Jesus, but other than that had little in common. It wasn't until the Nicean Council in the fourth century, that the Catholic Church was formed and a central view of Christianity was formed. And how was it formed? By the same way early Christians formed their cults, but taking bits and peices from each sect or cult, and weaving a doctrine of Christianity that could be followed by all. Each sect or cult had their own bible or writings, and it was decided by the council which would be included in the Christian bible and which books or writings would be discarded as too extreme. The fact that Paul wrote to so many of the early churches/sects/cults, became a central part of the development of Christianity. I believe that Paul actually had more to do with the development of Christianity that Jesus did.

Just some thoughts.