Why am I still irrational/supersticious? Need some help :(

[Cecilie]

All I can see from your story is that some clock broke and you were born sometime around the time of day displayed on the clock.

What does this mean?

Why is this important?

Exactly my question.

[philosoraptor]

Basically, when my mom was giving birth to me there was a clock which was stuck/had its battery ran out at about 6:03, sometime like that. when i was born the real time was 6:08pm, so it was almost like, even tho the clock wasnt spot on, it was 5 minutes away from appearing as if it predicted my birth time. ive never met anyone else whos had the same thing happen.

This isn't even a coincidence.  Even if the clock had stopped on your birth time, it has already been explained what the probability of that happening is.  Not to sound unkind, but get over it.  It almost sounds like you want an excuse to believe in the supernatural, and if that's the case, maybe you ought to be asking Christians about this so-called coincidence.

[JillSwift]

My father tells the story of my having been born at the "exact moment" the end credits of the first episode of Star Trek. (He was watching TV in the waiting room.) He credits this with my love of science fiction.

My sister's cat gave birth  just as a lightning storm rumbled in. All the kittens have names like "Storm" and "Squall" because of it.

I had a neighbor who felt guilty (and may still, he moved) that the 9/11/2001 attacks happened on a day he chose to sleep in rather than watch the early morning news shows as was his usual habit.

My point: A coincidence is two events you notice at the same time. There are events galore happening around you all the time. You will regularly see coincidences. On occasion those coincidences will be weird or amusing.

But a single coincidence can only be that, two events you noticed at the same time. In itself it can't suggest anything, because of the fact that events are happening all the time, only a few directly related to one another in the big picture.

If your family had the habit of birthing children near dead clocks at the time on the clock face, going back a few generations, then you'd have something to look at. A pattern of correlation. Those sometimes actually have meaning, and even then no properly studies correlation has suggested anything other than good old physics.

So, returning to my first example. If my father had been watching, say, a soap opera, would I have developed a love for drama? Or, did I become a sci-fi nut because my father is one?  

[joeactor]

I gotta agree with Jill...

Ok, so here's mine.  I was born during a snowstorm in Cleveland - at the end of April!  And at the wrong hospital!
(that's gotta be higher than 1 in 72 odds, yes?)

So, with perfect hindsight, I post-predict that I will dislike snow, and have a bad sense of direction.

Viola!  It's true!

Causation, Correlation, and Coincidence... 3 different beasts.


What it comes down to is: You're asking a "Why" question (Why did the stopped clock match my birth time?)... when there's no question to be asked (The stopped clock matched my birth time.)  Period.  End of story.

(My birth weight was also 714, so I'm naturally high),
JoeActor

[Genesis]

Yeah, I'm wondering the same.  I don't understand how it's important.  My mother's tubes were tied before I was conceived, yet, I don't attach anything supernatural to it.

[i_am_i]

I'm trying to avoid psychotherapy, as I don't believe I really need it and I have gotten through this many times before

But see, you haven't gotten through it, not yet, obviously not by a long shot. What's the problem with psychotherapy? Don't you want to be healthy and happy?

[G-Roll]

perhaps its a desire to be special? some "great" prediction was made before your birth.
So for a cure If I grant you specialdom will it cure your dilemma?

Why not just be happy that something cool happened or almost happened at your birth.

My cool birth story is I died at birth. I hear I was “dead” for 2 mins. I think that may be a bit dramatized but it’s the story im told by both of my parents.
So I am special to 

[xSilverPhinx]

If you're looking for proof that it was not a supernatural thing, then you're only going to make yourself more anxious. The supernatural cannot be proved or disproved. You have to really just take a step back and see it for what it is, the clock stopped (which is a perfectly natural occurance and happens all the time during all sorts of moments. If something actually supernatural (a miracle) happened to the clock a few minutes before you were born, then there would be a stronger reason for you to suspect something more than coincidence, but since the clock did what clocks do all the time, there's really no reason to attach any supernatural meaning to it.

so it was almost like, even tho the clock wasnt spot on, it was 5 minutes away from appearing as if it predicted my birth time. ive never met anyone else whos had the same thing happen.

Key word: wasn't spot on. It did not predict your birth, it just happened to stop five minutes before you were born.

[Asmodean]

...So when exactly did the clock stop? When the water broke? When your head popped out..? Your cord was cut..? Or did it just stand still for the duration of the event?

My point is: close doesn't count.

2.0001 != 2 when dealing with the mathematical absolutes, which you pretty much have to do in order to dismiss coincidence, and even then such a dismissal would be purely circumstancial unless the event can be verified by repetition or some such.

[Gawen]

An animate object runs out of animation to come close to predicting your birthday...

Ludicrous. Like a guy's watch stops when he's run over by a truck...predicting his death. What if the guy dies and the watch takes a licking and keeps on ticking?

So the battery ran out of juice. They can't go forever...*shrugs*...you just happened to be the lucky one. Either that or you can blame it on the Clock Gremlin.

[elliebean]

Look, we've all refuted the clock 'coincidence' as evidence of anything supernatural or having any meaning, to the point it's now beat to death, but you still seem somehow attached to the idea. It seems to me the reason for that has less to do with the clock or probability or chance or coincidences than it has do do with you. So the question is, "What is it about JimMorrisonBabe that wants to see some significance to this occurance?" It sounds like an obsessive thought to me, like the agonizing ruminations some people experience with OCD; the mind simply can't let go of a particular thought for whatever reason, even if they know rationally that it makes no sense. I think JMB understands the concept, but has a glitch in the brain that nevertheless keeps repeating the same thought as if it were a legitimate problem. I used to have glitches like that. I knew someone who had it even worse and probably still does, even though he's generally a far better critical thinker than I am. The only advice I know of is to speak to a therapist to try to sort out why you're obsessed with this question. It doesn't mean you're crazy, you don't have to check into a psychiatric hospital (please, ffs don't), and talking it out might do you some good. I realise you're trying to avoid it, but even if you have gotten through it in the past, you seem to keep going back to it, so there's something lacking in your approach into which a professional might have better insight.

[Squid]

If you look at the situation critically we have much to be skeptical about.

First, human memory of specific events years prior.  I'm not saying your mother is lying - not at all.  I am saying that human memory is notoriously malleable the further it gets from specific events that happened in the past.

Second, assuming the memory is completely accurate we have to ask - how long was this clock broken? Minutes, days, months, years?  And then, how many births have taken place in that room?  Maybe just a incident of law of averages?  Sell enough lottery tickets and someone will win - the winner is usually awed that they won against the "staggering odds".

Third, would such an event even constitute something supernatural?  A clock had stopped close to your birth time - but were you born in the A.M. or P.M.?  Does it count if it stopped in the A.M. if you were born in the P.M. and vice versa?  What if it was a 24 hour clock and it read  ~ 18:00 rather than ~ 6:00, does that still count?  What if you were born at 0600 and it read 1800?

Bottom line is that there are many factors to consider and we as pattern seeking organisms tend to eschew many factors and focus primarily on just the ones where we see things sync up.  If we paid enough attention through out our day we'd probably see more coincidences in our everyday lives - but we aren't usually actively seeking these out and when something such as this occurs during some significant event - we naturally consider that coincidence significant as well.

[Gawen]

It seems to me the reason for that has less to do with the clock or probability or chance or coincidences than it has do do with you.

Agreed...

[jimmorrisonbabe]

Hey guys, it's been a while and I have been quite a lot better in general recently. Although I'm still having blips like where I'll have a few off days, it's been a good few weeks since I've had a real episode with my anxieties on this issue. Each time I have those phases, I feel stronger too. Sometimes when it gets bad i still consider therapy, but i think with time and learning about science and dealing with it rationally i'm learning to get out of it completely.

Yes i think Ellie could be very right about her post on me having a slight OCD glitch, and i'd like to thank her for pointing that out, as it has helped, and although I am starting to accept the idea there couldn't have been any 'higher power' to influence the clock more and more, i'm still struggling to accept that the battery was just stopped.

It's like when I look at it from a certain perspective - there is NO scientific evidence to suggest anything else was responsible for the clock, then I start to feel better. However, when I take the situation head-on and try to analyze the probability and see it as just a stopped/broken clock, there's still a bit of a problem there. Could be the glitches, ey? My imagination does kinda run away with it. But at the end of the day, even if i don't seek therapy, what normally gets me out of this is taking a look at it scientifically. Can anybody help me finally rationalize and see that it was DEFINITELY just the battery and nothing else?

Another thing.... Richard Dawkins has also helped a lot. As he tends to debunk EVERYTHING supernatural in the slightest, seeing things from his point of view has worked for me recently. Also, I'm thinking of purchasing 'Unweaving The Rainbow' soon, which has a section which deals with coincidences.

[Cecilie]

Good to see you jimmorrisonbabe. I'm glad you're doing better.

Can anybody help me finally rationalize and see that it was DEFINITELY just the battery and nothing else?

The only thing I can say here is that; what makes more sense? Some sort of supernational force stopping the clock or that the battery just run out?