Catholicism and the priests who follow it.

[karadan]

The recent catholic scandals have got me thinking. If I was deeply religious then it would stand to reason that I'd believe fervently in the afterlife and a god. This would understandably make me wary of doing something I shouldn't do, like theft, for instance. So, with the catholic priests abusing their status with terrible acts of paedophilia, are they not afraid they will go to hell? Have these people lost enough faith as to not care about what they've been taught all their lives? If religion is supposed to make people conform then why are these people doing something they know to be absolutely and irrefutably bad? Obviously one can hide from the law, to an extent, but if someone truly believed in god then they'd know they can't hide from him/her/it.

Would it be accurate of me to say many religious people don't actually believe in god the way they are supposed to? If faced with an actual representation of a deity, I have a feeling most religious people wouldn't actually believe it was real because deep down they know it is all make-believe.

Many of you have said that when you were religious, you were just recanting what you'd been conditioned to say. If that is the case, there must be a huge amount of religious people out there teetering on the edge of reason. I do hope that is the case.

[Killa_Kron]

Why yes it is accurate...the horrible fact that none of them will admit to is that they do in fact think "God" isn't real, they have just been brainwashed into ignoring that common sense. They are "supposed" to believe that evolution is wrong and creationism is right and the world is 6,000 years old. Think of anything Bible related they are "supposed" to believe in that, not the half and half my father does (He beilieves there is a god but he also thinks evolution is God's way of making everything.)

[Logikos]

The recent catholic scandals have got me thinking. If I was deeply religious then it would stand to reason that I'd believe fervently in the afterlife and a god. This would understandably make me wary of doing something I shouldn't do, like theft, for instance. So, with the catholic priests abusing their status with terrible acts of paedophilia, are they not afraid they will go to hell? Have these people lost enough faith as to not care about what they've been taught all their lives? If religion is supposed to make people conform then why are these people doing something they know to be absolutely and irrefutably bad? Obviously one can hide from the law, to an extent, but if someone truly believed in god then they'd know they can't hide from him/her/it.

Being a paedophile and being rational are not typically characteristics found in one person... paedophiles (be they priests or not) are psychologically and sexually fucked up.  I suspect in the priest cases, God doesn't even come into the picture - they are so sexually frustrated that they simply can't think of anything else.  

Would it be accurate of me to say many religious people don't actually believe in god the way they are supposed to? If faced with an actual representation of a deity, I have a feeling most religious people wouldn't actually believe it was real because deep down they know it is all make-believe.

Many of you have said that when you were religious, you were just recanting what you'd been conditioned to say. If that is the case, there must be a huge amount of religious people out there teetering on the edge of reason. I do hope that is the case.

Definitely.  There are loads of "Sunday Christians" who essentially pay lip service once a week.  And there are loads of indoctrinated Christians.  Churches don't typically teach people the skills to think about religious issues themselves, which is pretty sad.

[SSY]

Your thoughts on this mirror my own Karadan. To me, if a religious person really believed their god to be everywhere, watching everything, then doing anything from tax fraud and theft, all the way to paedophilia and murder, would be like committing a crime in front of a policeman. Despite being a mostly law abiding citizen, when a policemen is in the room, I stop swearing, sit a little straighter and so on, I would never, ever commit any crime in front of a policeman. A Christian is in this situation permanently, and considering the stakes they think they think they are playing for, you would expect more restraint on their part.

When I was a nominal theist, I would often do things wrong, but I would always rationalise it, either just before I did it, or some time after as "Oh well, I am mostly a good kid, I'm sure God wouldn't send me to hell for lying/stealing/being unruly etc". I suppose with Catholics that this is even easier, they have confession, 40 Lord's Prayer's and that time you got drunk and beat your kids is forgiven, Hallelujah! I think also, the constant nature of it will inure someone to the surveillance eventually, 24 hours a day will force you to find a coping mechanism, or else go mad.

To give another example, if I see a speeding camera, I don't speed, nor would any sane person, because they know speed cameras have no mercy and no discretion. People convince themselves god will let them off, so they keep doing it. My theory at least.

[elliebean]

Many of you have said that when you were religious, you were just recanting what you'd been conditioned to say. If that is the case, there must be a huge amount of religious people out there teetering on the edge of reason. I do hope that is the case.

I'm sure there are millions of them, but I was probably the exception. For me it started out that way, just doing as I was told, but I took the back route to atheism, via 'true belief', ie. non hypocritical, radical fundamentalism. I never teetered on the edge of reason; I struggled in the opposite direction and kept going until I came up against an unscalable wall, and then simply walked through it as if it wasn't there, because it wasn't. I finally understood it just wasn't. It was then I found myself squarely in the middle of reality.

It was an adventure, but I recommend taking the more common approach. It's shorter.

[karadan]

Cripes SSY, i forgot about confession. That really does seem to be a convenient get-out clause. Is that how these atrocious priests might be able to rationalise their crimes? If so, that is fundamentally wrong on every level it is possible to be wrong. I guess i was naive enough to consider confession a mechanism for people to justify queue jumping and blasphemy. I hadn't considered the more heinous things people can do.

The policeman analogy is very apt. I'd never smoke a phatty in front of a policeman but if he/she didn't bust me in the event i was caught, i'd wonder what else i'd be able to get away with next time (not that that's how i'd really conduct myself, but you get the idea). The saying 'familiarity breeds contempt' must be true here. A small transgression goes unpunished so the perpetrator feels empowered to go that little bit further next time, and so on.. Considering this, there must be a really small percentage of catholics who really stick to their own code of conduct verbatim. The rest, as you say, must be able to justify it somehow unless they actually enjoy bouts of mental instability.

I wonder if it would be possible to construct a viable psychological study based upon the difference between moralistic reasoning and fear-of-god reasoning and how each justify actions based upon certain types of criteria under specific conditions.

I'm sure there are millions of them, but I was probably the exception. For me it started out that way, just doing as I was told, but I took the back route to atheism, via 'true belief', ie. non hypocritical, radical fundamentalism. I never teetered on the edge of reason; I struggled in the opposite direction and kept going until I came up against an unscalable wall, and then simply walked through it as if it wasn't there, because it wasn't. I finally understood it just wasn't. It was then I found myself squarely in the middle of reality.
It was an adventure, but I recommend taking the more common approach. It's shorter.

Wow. That must have been a hard fall. What was it like performing such a sudden about-face? Were you elated or crushed? Either way that has to be one hell of a mind-fuck.  

[elliebean]

Were you elated or crushed?

My fake, opressive, little imaginary world was crushed; I was ecstatic. I was set free.  

[Regens Küchl]

The recent catholic scandals have got me thinking. If I was deeply religious then it would stand to reason that I'd believe fervently in the afterlife and a god. This would understandably make me wary of doing something I shouldn't do, like theft, for instance. So, with the catholic priests abusing their status with terrible acts of paedophilia, are they not afraid they will go to hell? Have these people lost enough faith as to not care about what they've been taught all their lives? If religion is supposed to make people conform then why are these people doing something they know to be absolutely and irrefutably bad? Obviously one can hide from the law, to an extent, but if someone truly believed in god then they'd know they can't hide from him/her/it.

[philosoraptor]

Confession aside, Catholics still have a fail-safe built in-the Last Act of Contrition.  So (in theory, at least) you can live your whole life as a lying, cheating, stealing peace of shit, so long as you pray for forgiveness on your death bed.  Seems a little too convenient for me.  So you don't even have to be a good person to get into Heaven any more, although I suppose Catholics live under the assumption that a Last Act on Contrition is only valid if you're truly remorseful, because God will know if you're being insincere.

[Regens Küchl]

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