Religion Wired in Our Brains?

[Tank]

This question has cropped up a lot. Somebody mentioned superstition, if you look up Skinner Pigeons you'll find an interesting experiment in behavioural reinforcement. There are many examples of conditioned response behaviour, for example Pavlovs Dogs (bell = food = salivation eventually bell = salivation). Skinner use Pigeons and did a test he provided food for regular behaviour peck = grain, the control was peck = no grain, but the interesting one was peck = occasional grain. This third reinforcement proved the strongest in terms of leading to obsessive repetitive behaviour. He observed that the pigeons pecked at the food dispenser many times more in the third case (peck = occasional grain) than in the first case (peck = grain). In addition the pigeons in case three developed elaborate behaviours. If they got a grain by turning around and pecking they continued the behaviour and low and behold in due course they got another grain! So they continued to turn around before pecking and in due course this behaviour was reinforced. Does this remind anybody of the activity on preying? Sometimes you do get what you prey for so it must be working! Hence Skinner's superstitious pigeons.

Personally I have another view to add to this. Humans have developed their behaviours in part due to the survival advantages of being able to predict effect from cause. Snake = pain therefore Snake = run for it! Part of our nature is deeply affected by relating cause to effect and I would contend that where we see effect we attempt to ascribe cause. As we see cause => effect so often when we see effect = ? I.E. no cause we don't like it at a very deep level. So where does that leave us? Imagine some of our distant ancestors sitting watching the Sun go down. They would know from experience that the Sun will come back in due course. So they have knowledge but not understanding. They know the Sun will come back (the effect) but the don't understand why (the cause). Personally I think that the condition of not understanding 'why' would have caused our ancestors considerable psychological distress. Long story short I think they got over that distress by adding God into the equation to balance it. We see this behaviour in animist beliefs in isolated groups of humans that have not been exposed to missionaries of some 'better idea'.

Once you have God in the equation you have somebody who will exploit 'God' to their own advantage to achieve status within their group (I AM THE ALPHA MALE!). They will promote their concept of 'God' within their group and thus through their generations. Once one starts incorporating intent into the God figure you're on the slippery slope to religion and dogma and we all know where that goes.

Could be crap but it holds some sense for me.

[i_am_i]

Imagine some of our distant ancestors sitting watching the Sun go down. They would know from experience that the Sun will come back in due course. So they have knowledge but not understanding. They know the Sun will come back (the effect) but the don't understand why (the cause). Personally I think that the condition of not understanding 'why' would have caused our ancestors considerable psychological distress. Long story short I think they got over that distress by adding God into the equation to balance it. We see this behaviour in animist beliefs in isolated groups of humans that have not been exposed to missionaries of some 'better idea'.

Once you have God in the equation you have somebody who will exploit 'God' to their own advantage to achieve status within their group (I AM THE ALPHA MALE!). They will promote their concept of 'God' within their group and thus through their generations. Once one starts incorporating intent into the God figure you're on the slippery slope to religion and dogma and we all know where that goes.

Well put. God in all of its varations is a human invention, I couldn't agree more. But with all that we now know about life and the universe, with all the "better ideas" we've been exposed to, how can we explain why reasonably educated modern humans still require a supernatural being in their lives?

[Tank]

Imagine some of our distant ancestors sitting watching the Sun go down. They would know from experience that the Sun will come back in due course. So they have knowledge but not understanding. They know the Sun will come back (the effect) but the don't understand why (the cause). Personally I think that the condition of not understanding 'why' would have caused our ancestors considerable psychological distress. Long story short I think they got over that distress by adding God into the equation to balance it. We see this behaviour in animist beliefs in isolated groups of humans that have not been exposed to missionaries of some 'better idea'.

Once you have God in the equation you have somebody who will exploit 'God' to their own advantage to achieve status within their group (I AM THE ALPHA MALE!). They will promote their concept of 'God' within their group and thus through their generations. Once one starts incorporating intent into the God figure you're on the slippery slope to religion and dogma and we all know where that goes.

Well put. God in all of its varations is a human invention, I couldn't agree more. But with all that we now know about life and the universe, how can we explain why reasonably educated modern humans still require a supernatural being in their lives?

I would contend there are huge cultural habits to overcome. Humans have a built in instinct to do what our parents (ultimate authority figures) tell us, without question. Richard Dawkins hypothesised that a child that did not believe their parents immediately and unquestionably would be at significant risk. For example Mum "Don't go near that snake!", Child "It'll be alright!" result first class Natural Selection! So children are truly hardwired to believe their parents, irrespective of their own innate intelligence level. People with a high level of intelligence (IQ 125+) often find their way out from superstition in later life. Now in the past they had to keep their mouth shut, often on pain of significant sanction. Now that is no longer the case, this site is evidence of that and the Internet allows atheists to communicate and support each other in ways previously impossible. One atheist can be shouted down, millions can't and finally the 'King' will be seen to be wearing no clothes!

So an intelligent child brought up in a theistic environment will undoubtedly be infected by the household theistic meme irrespective of their level of intelligence.

[i_am_i]

I would contend there are huge cultural habits to overcome. Humans have a built in instinct to do what our parents (ultimate authority figures) tell us, without question. Richard Dawkins hypothesised that a child that did not believe their parents immediately and unquestionably would be at significant risk. For example Mum "Don't go near that snake!", Child "It'll be alright!" result first class Natural Selection! So children are truly hardwired to believe their parents, irrespective of their own innate intelligence level. People with a high level of intelligence (IQ 125+) often find their way out from superstition in later life. Now in the past they had to keep their mouth shut, often on pain of significant sanction. Now that is no longer the case, this site is evidence of that and the Internet allows atheists to communicate and support each other in ways previously impossible. One atheist can be shouted down, millions can't and finally the 'King' will be seen to be wearing no clothes!

So an intelligent child brought up in a theistic environment will undoubtedly be infected by the household theistic meme irrespective of their level of intelligence.

Interesting. The parent/child analogy raises a question. Could it be that some humans are just predisposed, genetically or otherwise, to cling to something that provides a sense of order in their lives? I realize that now I'm getting into the psychological realm, but maybe, just maybe, there is a sort of atavistic psychological reason for some humans embracing religion and others just not needing it, if that makes any sense.

[Tank]

I would contend there are huge cultural habits to overcome. Humans have a built in instinct to do what our parents (ultimate authority figures) tell us, without question. Richard Dawkins hypothesised that a child that did not believe their parents immediately and unquestionably would be at significant risk. For example Mum "Don't go near that snake!", Child "It'll be alright!" result first class Natural Selection! So children are truly hardwired to believe their parents, irrespective of their own innate intelligence level. People with a high level of intelligence (IQ 125+) often find their way out from superstition in later life. Now in the past they had to keep their mouth shut, often on pain of significant sanction. Now that is no longer the case, this site is evidence of that and the Internet allows atheists to communicate and support each other in ways previously impossible. One atheist can be shouted down, millions can't and finally the 'King' will be seen to be wearing no clothes!

So an intelligent child brought up in a theistic environment will undoubtedly be infected by the household theistic meme irrespective of their level of intelligence.

Interesting. The parent/child analogy raises a question. Could it be that some humans are just predisposed, genetically or otherwise, to cling to something that provides a sense of order in their lives?

Possibly. People tend to continue to do what works (where 'works' is a continuation of expectations). So what you write appears sensible.

I realize that now I'm getting into the psychological realm, but maybe, just maybe, there is a sort of atavistic psychological reason for some humans embracing religion and others just not needing it, if that makes any sense.

Not sure. What I can say is that in the UK mainstream religion is gradually disappearing. Growth areas are Born again Christians and Muslims, but most of Muslims are first generation immigrants whose children are often cultural Muslims by the time they grow up. The exception are the very small minority who feel disaffected by the endemic racism in the UK. Racism is endemic in the UK but it's at a very low level and gradually disappearing, but it is there in the poorer areas and when one gets white thugs beating up Asians the Asians sometimes turn to the support of radical Islam. So I would probably lean towards social pressures and cultural background being the prime drivers to taking on the mantel of a particular belief system. Just my view though.

[Maskeff]

There was an article in new scientists or somwhere like that recently reporting on a study that demonstrated that individuals have a habit of turning of their skepticism when dealing with trusted authority figures including religious ones. No doubt this is a mechanism to minise group argueing but also serves to give individuals (Most notably of the religious kind) the ability to sway many (Including intellegent people) to their point of view.