WWJD? Kill sick gay people, evidently.

[Typist]

If you couldn't somehow tie this story to theists, it wouldn't interest you.

[pinkocommie]

If you couldn't somehow tie this story to theists, it wouldn't interest you.

So my motivations aren't what they actually are but what you want them to be, because if my motivations are what you want them to be, it allows for you to make your point.

[Typist]

Let's try some math.

Something like half the people in the world are theists of one flavor or another.  

So, when you find some individual theists who are idiots, you have demonstrated nothing about theism in general.  

Here's why.  

A fair percentage of all the people in the world are idiots.

There are lots of theist idiots, for the simple reason there are lots of theists.   This fact proves nothing about theism.  

If you want to promote logic as alternative to theism, use logic to make your points, not hysterical hate speech.

If you want to make a general statement about theists as compared to some other group, you would have to share real data that shows how theists as a group are somehow less civilized than some other group of people.

At least a couple billion theists.   Of many different types.  Good luck.

Here, try this.

Right now, as we speak, there are surely some individual jews, blacks and gays somewhere in the world who are doing something entirely reprehensible.   Taking this fact, and whipping it up in to anything resembling a general statement about jews, blacks or gays, is....

... ignorant hate speech.

Not logic, but the emotional need to pretend superiority to some group of "others".  

The very same process that has afflicted gays for centuries.

[pinkocommie]

Let's try some math.

Something like half the people in the world are theists of one flavor or another.  

So, when you find some individual theists who are idiots, you have demonstrated nothing about theism in general.  

Here's why.  

A fair percentage of all the people in the world are idiots.

There are lots of theist idiots, for the simple reason there are lots of theists.   This fact proves nothing about theism.  

If you want to promote logic as alternative to theism, use logic to make your points, not hysterical hate speech.

If you want to make a general statement about theists as compared to some other group, you would have to share real data that shows how theists as a group are somehow less civilized than some other group of people.

At least a couple billion theists.   Of many different types.  Good luck.

Here, try this.

Right now, as we speak, there are surely some individual jews, blacks and gays somewhere in the world who are doing something entirely reprehensible.   Taking this fact, and whipping it up in to anything resembling a general statement about jews, blacks or gays, is....

... ignorant hate speech.

Not logic, but the emotional need to pretend superiority to some group of "others".  

The very same process that has afflicted gays for centuries.

Did I make any comments about theists in general?  I must have not been clear, because that wasn't my intent.

[Typist]

Honestly, I'm not that concerned about you.   I just mean, it's not really you I'm debating.  

You seem young.  You seem more intelligent than I was when I was young.   You're getting married!  Forget me, and go have a great life.

What I'm really debating, what interests me, is a pattern across many forums where we do this identify a group to hate thing.  The larger a group is, the less useful any generalization will be.   I don't care if it's gays, blacks, jews, theists etc.   That process is a bad plan.

Which is why I hate all atheists, because they all do this.  

Irony, joke, just kidding!!!

[G-Roll]

There are lots of theist idiots, for the simple reason there are lots of theists.

Chicken. Egg. Whatever.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! i love it.

What I'm really debating, what interests me, is a pattern across many forums where we do this identify a group to hate thing. The larger a group is, the less useful any generalization will be. I don't care if it's gays, blacks, jews, theists etc. That process is a bad plan.

i know what you are getting at, but i dont agree. yes there is theist bashing here and at any theist type forum there will be atheist bashing. just as if i go to a army post i will be bashed and picked on and told my branch of service is a lesser wussier branch.
i see this as the same. many theist post here and are great contributors. others are crackpots, rude, preachy, or whatever. if i go to a christian forum and i am polite for the most part i will be well received by the majority. some will dismiss me as the actual devil come to lure away children (true story) with the internet... that is apparently the devils new play ground.

but back to my point.
i dont think its hate that makes us argue, disagree, or debate. i dont think its that shallow rather than similar interest in similar subjects, only with tremendously different points of views.
they say that religion is the #1 subject to start a heated argument. i dont know why... but i would have to agree with it.

The larger a group is, the less useful any generalization will be.

i agree 1,000,000%
i will knock myself though. i see everyone as individuals. i also realize there are thousands of sects of christianity that are all different, but i seem to sometimes group them into one lump of theists.

[elliebean]

Sorry G-Roll, I deleted my post after I saw I had been posted over. In light of Typist's....toning it down, I felt it would be unfair to completely slam his post the way I did. I'd hoped to take it down before it was read.

<----See? Exercises self-control!  

It was fun to vent, though! I guess I should have saved it just for laughs.

[elliebean]

What I'm really debating, what interests me, is a pattern across many forums where we do this identify a group to hate thing.

The whole reason I joined this forum was because I sought out one that was friendlier. I had been a long-time member on another atheist message board that was shut down during my long absence (still don't know what happened) and I joined a different one. Well, before long, I noticed that most of the people doing most of the posting - theists and atheists alike  - were....well...assholes. Administrator included. Not even just as an "us vs. them", "atheist vs. theist" kind of thing. They were the same way with each other. Some equal opportunity hate going on over there. I'd had enough of it after a while and missed the sense of community, so I looked into a few others and finally came across HAF (damn, why didn't I put all this in my intro?)

Anyway, in my experience, most of the people on any forum hate somebody and make a career out of letting everyone know it as often as possible.

Personally, I'm not into hating anyone; I'm just a smartass.

[pinkocommie]

Honestly, I'm not that concerned about you.   I just mean, it's not really you I'm debating.  

You seem young.  You seem more intelligent than I was when I was young.   You're getting married!  Forget me, and go have a great life.

What I'm really debating, what interests me, is a pattern across many forums where we do this identify a group to hate thing.  The larger a group is, the less useful any generalization will be.   I don't care if it's gays, blacks, jews, theists etc.   That process is a bad plan.

Which is why I hate all atheists, because they all do this.  

Irony, joke, just kidding!!!

The reason I kept responding wasn't because I disagree with or don't understand your point.  It made me extremely defensive to be painted as some hateful person using an atrocity against gay people as an excuse to hate theists.  For you to now say that you're not really concerned about my actual motivations, it would seem that you just made me into a hateful person in order to prove your point, and that leaves me feeling frustrated and suspicious as to what other fabrications you might feel justified presenting as fact in order to initialize/further your own arguments.  

I understand now that your remarks weren't intended to be personal, but you still specifically used me as your example of a hateful person and my post as an example of hateful thinking.  So it may not have been personal to you, but you made it personal for me in order to establish a reason to make your point.  

And...and...that sucks!  But I get it, you don't care, your focus is the point, not the people you insult or falsely represent in order to make the point.

Anyway.  Yeah.  Hello Killy Stormtrooper.

[karadan]

Sure, only some theists are obsessed with homosexuality - but they're killing people!  Human beings dead

Are you interested in theists, or in gays?   If the later, then you'll give just as big a speech when atheists kill gays.   Have you done so?  Can you provide the link?

As best I can recall, we're well in to this thread now, and so far nobody has shown any concern for events where atheists kill gays.  

That's why it seems reasonable to offer the theory that posters aren't actually all that interested in gays, but are just grabbing yet another chance to hate theists.   Honestly, let's not drift in to the same generalizing mindsets that allow people to rationalize actions like the Ugandans are taking.  Ok?

Find me a case where a gay person was killed by someone specifically because of the non-belief in a deity. If you can, you win teh interwebz.

The point is, many atheists have killed gay people in the past due to one prejudice or another. There's a lot of atheists in Jamaica, which just happens to be one of the most dangerous places in the world to be openly gay. Of course, it is horrendous, barbaric and deplorable but that does NOT mean atheists killed gay people because atheism told them to. They did it due to other prejudicial factors which have nothing to do with the non-belief in a deity. Yes, these people should be punished just as hard as the theists who've committed such atrocities.

Had there been a country in the world who's laws were being amended to include the death penalty for homosexuality IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM then I'd be at the forefront of this thread showing my utter contempt and disdain at such a thing. As it stands, the current situation in Uganda doesn't really surprise me. The warping tendencies of religion have proven time and time again how adept it is at fucking up peoples minds to the point where they feel obliged to kill those with different lifestyle choices.

[karadan]

Kylyssa, what I'm trying to say is...

My sense from reading this thread, and many other similar ones on atheist forums, is that the only reason many are interested in stories like this at all is because it involves theists in the role of bad guy.

The concern for gays rings hollow here, because I'm pretty sure if it was anybody but theists involved, we wouldn't be talking about it.

To the degree you are actually concerned about gays, I share your concern.  Half my family is gay.  To the degree you are looking for yet another way to hate theists, I am uncomfortable, as it reminds me too much of how folks rationalize hating gays.

Suppose gays were running a government and proposing killing theists.  Would you still be outraged?    Would this thread still be popping?   Personally, my guess is no.

That's because in many, many cases THEISTS ARE THE FUCKING BAD GUYS... I've become more and more offended by your comments in this thread because you seem to be labelling us as people who have a selective moral compass when it comes to the importance of human life. All human life is important.

Your parallels are deeply flawed and your logic quite off the mark. I'm getting the feeling you're being deliberately contentious just for the hell of it. If that's the case, i wash my hands of this thread.

Oh, and if there were people creating laws to kill gays in the name of atheism, i'd be shouting louder than this and i'd make several threads. There's an obvious absence of those threads, though, because that situation does not exist...  So, that should blow a mortar-sized hole in your prediction that we wouldn't be outraged. I'm outraged that you'd consider me shallow enough to not be outraged by such a thing.

[karadan]

Kylyssa, you're making my points better than I can, so I'll leave you to it.

Theist troll. I thought something was off about you.

[Typist]

That's because in many, many cases THEISTS ARE THE FUCKING BAD GUYS...

And that is true, because theists are possibly the largest group of people on earth.

As example, there are a billion+ Chinese.  

Thus "in many many cases Chinese are fucking bad guys", is a perfectly true statement.  

Which tells us NOTHING about Chinese people as a group compared to other groups of people.  

I'm not defending theists.   I'm defending logic.

[karadan]

That's because in many, many cases THEISTS ARE THE FUCKING BAD GUYS...

And that is true, because theists are possibly the largest group of people on earth.

As example, there are a billion+ Chinese.  

Thus "in many many cases Chinese are fucking bad guys", is a perfectly true statement.  

Which tells us NOTHING about Chinese people as a group compared to other groups of people.  

I'm not defending theists.   I'm defending logic.

No... It is true because they follow a doctrine which teaches them to be mistrustful and hate those of a different belief system. Because of this, it makes some people feel they have the 'god-given' right to be really fucking horrible to other humans. It has nothing to do with numbers. The chrstian doctrine just happens to have enveloped more people than any other theistic category.

I'm still quite convinced you are a christian troll masquerading as an atheist.

[Typist]

No... It is true because they follow a doctrine which teaches them to be mistrustful and hate those of a different belief system.

It is true that, out of 2 or 3 billion theists, there are some that fit your description.

It is also true, a fact which is documented in print on any of the leading atheist forums, that SOME atheists have a blind irrational hatred of all theists, billions of individual people they have never met, and know nothing about.

What does this data tell us?

In any group of people, there are individuals who have abandoned logic for emotion.