To all 'rational' atheist: Please answer my questions.

[pj084527]

(1) Why do you feel insulted and upset when creation scientist says that people were created in the image and likeness of a loving God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident?

(2) Why do you people criticize Christians because we believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's or Richard Dawkins' writings on evolution and just dogmatically accepts it?

(3) Why do you insult the Holy Bible by saying it is full of fairy tales , yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all?

(4) While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, why do you Atheists in you arrogance continue to to hide behind elaborate 'science theories' and claim that you understand the nature of creation, when the fact shows that relativism and the theory of evolution doesn't describe the creation of the universe at all, or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist?

[LoneMateria]

Gotta love Sunday  

If you are actually gonna hang around you should know that all your arguments are straw men arguments.  If you are gonna be active here please respond to this post and i'd be happy to explain everything that is wrong with your post.  But I suspect you are a hit and run poster trying to make an ass of yourself after church and through some warped sense of logic earn brownie points with some creator who (if exists) knows exactly what you are doing and is giving you demerits instead.

[G-Roll]

Other wise we may think him a troll.

Why do you people

i dont like that either. its VERY disrespectful. someone physically near by should slap you.

[pj084527]

Gotta love Sunday  

If you are actually gonna hang around you should know that all your arguments are straw men arguments.  If you are gonna be active here please respond to this post and i'd be happy to explain everything that is wrong with your post.  But I suspect you are a hit and run poster trying to make an ass of yourself after church and through some warped sense of logic earn brownie points with some creator who (if exists) knows exactly what you are doing and is giving you demerits instead.

Very well, show me why the questions I asked are wrong if you can. And no, I am not a hit and run troll. I am planning to stay in this forum and asking questions is not trolling.

[AlP]

Copied from http://www.mastermarf.com/2009/03/ten-false-reasons-why-atheists-are.html.

[McQ]

Gotta love Sunday  

1. Read the forum rules.
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4. Do not copy and paste posts here without giving the credit to the source material, as you have just done.
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To all our members: please post in the same spirit of the forum. Do not be antagonistic. If you don't think you will be capable of posting a non-sarcastic reply, just don't post. Or give yourself some time before responding. (So far, everything is cool, so nobody is off track, IMO)

[LoneMateria]

Alright since you responded i'm gonna make this quick.  I'm gonna head over to my dads house in a little bit to watch the Sunday NFL Ticket w00t some good games will be on today.

(1) Why do you feel insulted and upset when creation scientist says that people were created in the image and likeness of a loving God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident?

Straw Man.  We don't feel insulted we get upset because they are trying to shove religion into our public schools and want evolutionary theory not to be taught or at the most to be taught like someone thought it up at one in the morning while drunk.  Also the cosmic accident is a gross oversimplification.  Natural Selection (the driving force behind evolution) is anything but a cosmic accident or random chance.  However no intelligent being is necessary to produce these results.  When you take away evolution, reality, and evidence from the science classroom and bring in superstition and myth its bad for the growth of our society and for the minds of our future generation.  We get irritated when the evidence and reality get chucked out the window because of someones superstitious beliefs.

How would you like it if Scientologists demanded we change our history program at schools to teach their personal beliefs which is not supported by evidence?  That's how we are with evolution.

(2) Why do you people criticize Christians because we believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's or Richard Dawkins' writings on evolution and just dogmatically accepts it?

Another Straw man.  Most atheists don't criticize a Christian because you believe in the bible.  We criticize your beliefs like vicarious redemption, blood sacrifice, holy genocide, etc.  Also you seem to subscribe to the notion that we think Darwin was 100% right.  Well ... you are wrong.  Darwin got some things wrong as does everyone else.  We look at all things through the same lens.  When we see something wrong with Dawkins, Hitches, or Darwin we criticize it just like we do with religion ... only difference is Darwin, Hitchens, Dawkins etc. has evidence to support their claims.  Christianity does not and they make more claims.  So we have more to criticize.

(3) Why do you insult the Holy Bible by saying it is full of fairy tales , yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all?

Evolution has evidence to support it the bible does not.  

(4) While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, why do you Atheists in you arrogance continue to to hide behind elaborate 'science theories' and claim that you understand the nature of creation, when the fact shows that relativism and the theory of evolution doesn't describe the creation of the universe at all, or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist?

Actually all evidence, logic and reasoning does not point to a creator at all much less absolute truth.  Think about this if you have an all loving God that is all powerful then where does evil come from?  And if you say man then why does the devil exist?  To my knowledge God created him.  Would an all loving being create something that evil, since he is all knowing he would know what would happen.  So either he is not all loving and created evil and suffering (making him a dick).  Or he is not all powerful and/or all knowing because he isn't able to do anything about it or didn't know it would happen.  Somewhere your belief about this will contradict.

Also on the subject of morality ... is something moral because your god says its moral or is it moral because it is moral and god agrees with it?  If its moral because your god says it is then morality is arbitrary and if he wanted to then tomorrow he could change his mind and say now killing, rape, incest are all moral while kindness, generosity, charity are all unforgivable sins.  (and before you say god wouldn't do that please read the old testament.)  Now if its moral because it is moral and your god just agrees with it then your god isn't the author of morality and thus we shouldn't look up to him as it.  Morality would exist regardless of him.

I hope I answered your questions to your satisfaction.  I'll be home later tonight, now its time for some football ^_^

[Tom62]

Regarding point 3), I understand that you can insult people, but how on Earth can you insult a book?

[McQ]

Alright since you responded i'm gonna make this quick.  I'm gonna head over to my dads house in a little bit to watch the Sunday NFL Ticket w00t some good games will be on today.

I hope I answered your questions to your satisfaction.  I'll be home later tonight, now its time for some football ^_^

And the most important game on today...well actually tonight:

EAGLES vs. Giants! Woot!!!

Go Birds!

[Squid]

(1) Why do you feel insulted and upset when creation scientist says that people were created in the image and likeness of a loving God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident?

It's not really a feeling on insult but rather a feeling of frustration.  I have no problem if people believe a deity magically crafted man from a handful of earth.  It is when this is presented as an evidence-based position that I become frustrated.  As far as descent with modification, this IS an evidence-based position.  I'm not one to run into a church service and tell everyone there that they're wrong and will all be punished so I want creationists to return the favor and not walk into the biology classroom and tell everyone there that modern biology is wrong and we're all going to be punished in hell - that's when it becomes insult and my frustration peaks.

(2) Why do you people criticize Christians because we believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's or Richard Dawkins' writings on evolution and just dogmatically accepts it?

I've read the entire bible...twice (two different versions).  I have read archaeological reports, articles and books regarding biblical stories and have come to the conclusion that the events in the bible are as real as those in Homer's Illiad.  I've also read much of Dawkins' work and Darwin's writings.  Darwin wasn't absolutely correct on everything, however, he was amazingly accurate on the majority of what he wrote which has been verified by subsequent research - I have no need to dogmatically accept what he wrote, the research speaks for itself, the same goes for the work of Dr. Dawkins.

(3) Why do you insult the Holy Bible by saying it is full of fairy tales , yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all?

1. As to the bible and it's stories, see my reply above.

2. Evolutionary biology is a scientific sub-discipline which has the support of over 150 years of empirical, evidence-based research - that does not a fairy tale make my friend.

(4) While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, why do you Atheists in you arrogance continue to to hide behind elaborate 'science theories' and claim that you understand the nature of creation, when the fact shows that relativism and the theory of evolution doesn't describe the creation of the universe at all, or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist?

I beg to differ greatly that all the "evidence, logic and reasoning point to a creator", this is false.  Also, evolutionary biology does not encompass the creation of the universe and therefore this leads me to ask, why do you so vehemently reject a theory which you obviously have little understanding of?  As for morality, this is also something which is explained within an social-evolutionary framework.  The idea of a deity being the source of morality is not support by evidence nor does it fly in the field of philosophy either - freshman philosophy classes tackle items like the Divine Command Theory and subsequently show the fallacy behind it.

[OldGit]

A doctor I knew well once had a patient who believed she had a large dog in her womb which had been planted there by the CIA.  I was surprised when the doctor told me she had made very little effort to talk logically about the impossibility of this belief.  "You can't talk logically to the illogical," she used to say, "and there's no point in trying."
The illusions and the logical refutation live on different levels of the mind and cannot make contact.

[Whitney]

(1) Why do you feel insulted and upset when creation scientist says that people were created in the image and likeness of a loving God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident?

Creationist claims don't upset me...them trying to delude our children by pushing religion into the classroom is upsetting.

(2) Why do you people criticize Christians because we believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's or Richard Dawkins' writings on evolution and just dogmatically accepts it?

^Strawman  Everything you wrote above is so off base it's not even worthy of a response....try rewriting it without your biases and I'll answer.

(3) Why do you insult the Holy Bible by saying it is full of fairy tales , yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all?

Perhaps because one is based on evidence and the other is not.  Btw, you can't insult inanimate objects.

(4) While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, why do you Atheists in you arrogance continue to to hide behind elaborate 'science theories' and claim that you understand the nature of creation, when the fact shows that relativism and the theory of evolution doesn't describe the creation of the universe at all, or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist?

The point of a question is to ask a question...not to make wild (false) claims so that the person the question is directed at cannot answer it.

No wonder you don't get any good responses to your questions...they are horribly biased and not written in the spirit of wanting true understanding of the opposite viewpoint.

[SSY]

Squid and LoneMateria summed up my views perfectly, good job guys. Next time, before starting a topic, you may want o put some more thought into your ideas.

[Ellainix]

(1) Why do you feel insulted and upset when creation scientist says that people were created in the image and likeness of a loving God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident?

How are you not insulted when creationists say the human race as a whole are weak, stupid, worthless, and deserve to die? We can't do anything without God. Me and my dad seem to be doing absolutely fine in life without any evidence of a God. How are you not insulted when your friend says that he will help you get a job in times of trouble, but all he does is talk to himself and later claim God helped you? How are you not insulted that God made "The Ultimate Sacrifice" but brought his son back to life a few days later? Where is the part where that is even a sacrifice?

(2) Why do you people criticize Christians because we believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's or Richard Dawkins' writings on evolution and just dogmatically accepts it?

Observe this picture:

Note that if any of the three main points are false, then the rest are false. You only believe each individual point to be true because you also believe the other two to be true.

Scientific theories do no work like that.

(3) Why do you insult the Holy Bible by saying it is full of fairy tales ,

We insult the Holy Bible saying it is full of fairy tales because it is made of fairy tales.

yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all?

Yes, we believe in evolution as if it were not the biggest fairytale of them, but mostly because it is not the biggest fairy tale of them all.

(4) While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, why do you Atheists in you arrogance continue to to hide behind elaborate 'science theories' and claim that you understand the nature of creation,

I'm not really sure why we are arrogant atheists if we listen to scientists doing research all day as opposed to a book written by an ancient civilization. The word civilization being used loosely.
 

when the fact shows that relativism and the theory of evolution doesn't describe the creation of the universe at all,

You are absolutely correct, evolution says absolutely nothing about the creation of the universe. So, evolution is perfectly compatible with the idea that a God created the entire physical universe, then invented evolution as a method to create all life.

or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist?

Evolution actually does explain this through natural selection. Hint: People who run around murdering each other all day don't reproduce with more success than people who farm and hunt animals all day.

[Whitney]

FYI, PJ logged in at 5:50 forum time....so, unless you just want to respond for the sake of random readers,  you may not want to waste any more time responding until PJ decides to respond.