Courthouse Display Rules Make Room For All

[Whitney]

Leesburg resident Richard L. Wingrove is requesting the placing of a six-foot banner provided by Freedom From Religion Foundation, saying "At This Season of the Winter Solstice, May Reason Prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural World. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." Wingrove is requesting the banner be placed in same area as the Nativity scene.

http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/20 ... 121109.txt

[SSY]

What happened to separation of church and state?

[LoneMateria]

What happened to separation of church and state?

The state can't show favor to one group.  If it allows all groups it's fine.  At least thats the working model behind it.

[SSY]

What happened to separation of church and state?

The state can't show favor to one group.  If it allows all groups it's fine.  At least thats the working model behind it.

But there are only 10 slots for display, does this not mean only 10 religions can participate? Maybe I am being persnickety.

[Whitney]

What happened to separation of church and state?

The state can't show favor to one group.  If it allows all groups it's fine.  At least thats the working model behind it.

But there are only 10 slots for display, does this not mean only 10 religions can participate? Maybe I am being persnickety.

Well, it's still equal because it is first come first serve.  So if they athesits, for instance, were slow to submit their entry then they would get left out but not due to gov preference.

It seems it would just be more simple to not allow displays at all.

[LoneMateria]

It seems it would just be more simple to not allow displays at all.

More simple yes, but voters get sticks up their asses about this subject so its a PR campaign.

[G-Roll]

Leesburg resident Richard L. Wingrove is requesting the placing of a six-foot banner provided by Freedom From Religion Foundation, saying "At This Season of the Winter Solstice, May Reason Prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural World. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." Wingrove is requesting the banner be placed in same area as the Nativity scene.

hah! I love it. I dont understand why it has to be in the same area as th nativity scene though. I am just happy that atheist are getting the right to actually display ANYTHING.
How did they get the banner to go through? I saw that banners are one of the outlawed displays. And how do they plan to display it without poles or attaching it to a fence?

[Whitney]

How did they get the banner to go through? I saw that banners are one of the outlawed displays. And how do they plan to display it without poles or attaching it to a fence?

from my understanding of the article, only banners attached to the fence are against the rules.  He could fill some buckets with concrete, stick poles in the concrete before it sets and hold up the banner that way.

[G-Roll]

Firearms, candles, other incendiary devices and fireworks are prohibited in displays, as are vehicles. Poles, stakes, tents and digging or excavating on the property are not allowed and banners, sign and equipment are not allowed to be affixed to poles, fences, signs, buildings, trees on any other structure.

yeah maybe i read into it wrong. either way i hope they get to put it up. it would make me smile.

[LARA]

Here's the problem I see with atheist displays (and any other display that references religion).  In past supreme court rulings, most holiday decorations pass the test as long as they don't include text.  For example a creche was deemed inconsequential by the Supreme Court when displayed without text, however a creche with a Latin phrase referring to the golry of gawd was not.  So religious displays usually go over okay as long as they are symbolic and artistic, a tree, a menorah, a creche.  But text or logos ( cross, star of david, star and crescent, pentacle, etc.) don't work so well in displays.  This might be why there was a ban on banners in the first place, not as something specifically against the atheists, but just to keep the displays from getting in your face.

My atheist winter solstice display would be a dinosaur creche (nest) with a huge fucking asteroid in the sky above coming down to destroy them.
                                           

No text necessary.

[G-Roll]

My atheist winter solstice display would be a dinosaur creche (nest) with a huge fucking asteroid in the sky above coming down to destroy them.
                                           

No text necessary.]

that sounds beautiful

to keep the displays from getting in your face.

I was surprised the words "there is no god" and ect. ect. was able to be approved (assuming it already was approved). I would like to see it up but I would understand if it had to be changed to be less offensive to godfull people or less in your face.
But still if it stays the way it is all in yo face and what not it will make me smile bigger.

[Whitney]

I personally prefer the softer approach.  Like "Good without God" and stuff like that.  I think "there is no god" just furthers the stereotype that atheists are bitter old men who have nothing better to do than bash religion and make children cry.

[LARA]

Whitney wrote: I think "there is no god" just furthers the stereotype that atheists are bitter old men who have nothing better to do than bash religion and make children cry.

Hmmmmm.... do you think there should be a difference between the speech atheists can use for themselves personally as opposed to as a whole?

I mean, I will say to a person there is no God, get over it, if I feel so inclined, or post it here in this forum; however, I wouldn't put it on a public display in text form for all to see on government property.  
My own property might be different, but I have to keep it mind the feelings on those I reside with.  (Which is why I probably won't get to paint "God is Imaginary"  on the roof in six foot high letters any time soon.    )

But some might say that our personal actions are reflective of the whole, therefore, we, as atheists, have to be on our best behavior so as not to create any fuel for stereotypes.

[Whitney]

LARA, it's really up to individual choice as far as what they say.  But I do think that what one atheist says reflects on all atheists in the public's mind...the general public doesn't tend to realize we are not a collective and do not necessarily share common views on anything other than disbelief.

[LARA]

Whitney wrote: the general public doesn't tend to realize we are not a collective and do not necessarily share common views on anything other than disbelief.

Yeah.  They actually have to talk to an atheist and get to know them.  With a Christian, for example, people kind of have some parameters of what is okay and not okay, so all the little social rules are easier to gauge, at least if you've been brought up in Judeo-Christian culture.  So it's kind of a hodge podge of people and then someone wants to put up a sign representing an atheist viewpoint for the holidays, when in reality there is a great deal of diversity in atheist's viewpoints, backgrounds, and opinions on how outgoing to be.  So in some ways, when I consider the quiet, polite atheists among us, I don't really like the sentiment on these signs, but I'm glad that they are given a voice because people need to be made aware that we have the freedom to choose our own beliefs in America.

But how else can you really represent atheism without a sign?  I mean, my joke about the dinosaur creche is irreverant but does it really say athesim?  How do you represent a non-belief without words or logos?  A vacant lot next to the Christmas tree and menorah?  

Any time you make a symbol, create a group, have an in-joke,  you begin to create a culture.  And this can then eventually go on to have the same traits of a religion.  It's interesting.