LGBT Hate crime bill passed

[LoneMateria]

Lol last time I did this I went into foamyrant mode.  I'm gonna try not to do that this time.  ... Let's begin.

I don't think I said anything about a harsher sentence. I don't understand how classifying an act of violence against a group (i e more than one) of people differently than an act against an individual is the same as showing "that this particular group of people are different and need special protection." Most laws aren't a deterrent to stop crime but a means to define a act in a way that can allow a victim to seek recourse or justice.

A harsher sentence is what this is about.  When a crime becomes labeled a "hate crime" a longer/harsher sentence is given.  I'm not saying that a group is the same as an individual.  I'm saying that if the individual happens to be part of a group (example: a man is attacked who happens to be black and his assailant happens to be white) he should not receive a different sentence then a white man attack another white man.  A pre-meditated crime should get the same sentence all over the board.  What is the difference between a man who is prowling the streets looking to beat the hell out of a woman and a man who is prowling the streets looking to beat the hell out of a latino?  Who will get the harsher sentence for essentially the same crime?  That is injustice if one gets a worse sentence over another.

 

Now I agree with the sentiment of this statement. Its a reason why I support Hate Crimes Legislation, by legally separating violence against a group differently from violent acts against an individual a group may better stand up for itself in a court of law.

You seem to be switching categories on me.  I never said that someone who commits a crime against a group of people should be judged the same as an individual person.  When a black man commits a crime against say a mexican for being mexican (for example) he is not attacking that group he is attacking that individual for just being part of the group.  The group can take offense all they want but his crime isn't against them it is against the individual he attacked.  His crime should be the same as if an Alabama fan attacked an Auburn fan.  That is justice ... punishing people equally for the same crime.  Punishing 2 people differently for the same crime is injustice... whats the difference between punishing someone harder for attacking someone who is black and punishing someone harder for being black?


     

I'm not necessarily saying that the sentence should be worse, but that the crime is different.

    Example:
    Three ways to kill somebody

    1) my car jumps a curb while I'm driving and a pedestrian is hit. The pedestrian dies.

    2)I'm out drinking and I try to drive home, my car jumps a curb while I'm driving and a pedestrian is hit. The pedestrian dies.

    3)I see somebody with a "God Hates Fags" sign and I drive my car over a curb and hit the sign holder. The sign holder dies.

    All these actions wound up killing somebody, but each act is different. Should I be executed if I accidentally lose control of my car and kill someone? Is accidentally killing somebody the same as intentionally killing somebody or willfully putting myself in a state where my actions are more likely to wind up killing somebody? Should the punishments be the same? Should our rule of law treat each situation the same?

    Personally I think not.

You've just explained why the 10 commandments aren't a foundation for our law system .  However in this discussion you are trying to change categories on me again.  To steal your example i'm saying that

1) I see a pedestrian and I decide to run them over because i'm psycho.
2) I see a pedestrian and decide to run them over because they are black and i'm a psycho.

That these are essentially the same crime.  Both premeditated and they both end in tragedy for the families of those involved.  If number 1 gets 20 years number 2 should get 20 instead of 25 or more.  Is the extra sentence for the qualifier, "because he was black" really justice?  If yes please explain why.

           

But when a man beats his ex's new boyfriend, he's only beating that one man. He isn't beating everybody's ex's new boyfriends when that man beats the boyfriend of his ex. When a man hangs another man from a tree for no other reason than his skin color or sexual orientation or religion or beliefs or for speaking a different language the message is different. If the man is willing to kill another for any one of those reasons he's willing to kill others for the same reasons. So in my opinion, the two crimes are different and should be classified differently, treated differently, and if need be punished differently.

I'm getting annoyed with you switching degrees and categories on me to justify your side.  The 2 crimes you are putting there are different because one person is beating another person and the other is killing another person.  Say they both get hung from a tree is the crime different?  If you say yes please explain.

I'm less concerned about fairness and equality and more concerned that people who are wronged have legal recourse to seek justice. Where you think that these laws single out groups of victims for special treatment, I prefer to think of it as singling out groups of criminals who should be treated differently due to the different nature of their crimes. Which I don't, by the way, think is bullshit.

Have you been paying any attention to what i'm saying?  Let me sum it up for you.... SAME CRIME = SAME PUNISHMENT.  When did this conversation change to minorities don't have  legal rights?  I sure as hell haven't said that.  Everyone need to have the SAME legal repercussions for committing the same crime ... and adding on years because the victim is latino or black or white is not justice.  It is divisive and racist.  It creates a us vs them mentality which is reinforced when someone is convicted of a "hate crime".  People are people and some people hate others for something arbitrary thats how some people are.  Some of those people who hate others commit crimes against them and should be judged the same as someone who commits the same crime against someone of the same race(or whatever arbitrary measure is used).  Because we are all people and we are not different then each other because of skin tone or sexual orientation.

Also i can't figure out what you are saying in your last sentence.  What are you saying is bullshit?

[Big Mac]

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[Ultima22689]

Feh, life is a game. Might as well kick people's feet from under you before they do it to you.

Or maybe set an example of not being a douche for our descendants so there will be less of them around in the future.