Scientists vs. Animal Rights Extremists

[Squid]

Found this article this morning and thought it was worth posting for others to read:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/08/animal.rights.threats/index.html

[LoneMateria]

Yeah eco-terrorists are still a big thing.  Penn and Teller did a Bullshit! episode on PETA and about their connection to terrorist organizations.  These fuckers should be sent to live in Palestine and then maybe they wont give a rats ass about a fucking monkey.  Seriously watch the Bullshit! episode on PETA if you haven't.  One of the people connected to them and to the eco-terrorists got busted, has some long sentence but for some reason he gets out and go tells children how to make home made bombs to throw at people who do laboratory experiments on animals.  I hope these people get killed and eaten by the animals they kill humans for.

***EDIT***  Or better yet these people need to volunteer at places where they do laboratory experiments on animals and volunteer for the experiment themselves.

[Will]

Personally, I do understand the importance of animal testing when it comes to areas of real science. While I don't like the idea of animals suffering and dying, I realize their sacrifices are for a wider good. Still, for every researcher curing polio there are ten "researchers" seeing if the latest eye-shadow is going to cause blindness. Animal testing should only happen in medical fields, never for cosmetics. Looking pretty is not a cause justifying the torture and killing of animals.

I've been an "eco-terrorist" before (I chained myself to trees, I've been involved at sit-ins at SUV dealerships, etc.), though, and I can tell you this article really doesn't do a good job at being objective. While animal testing is necessary for medicine, there's very rarely oversight to ensure that the animals aren't being unfairly abused. The Animal Welfare Act puts little to no restrictions on what can be done to animals during experimentation. Imagine someone were to take your dog and expose him or her to radioactive dust for a few days:

See what I mean? It's not a black and white issue.

[LoneMateria]

I'm on the same boat with you along the lines of cosmetics.  Scientific testing is the only place where animals should be subjected to this.  Oh and will I don't consider you an eco-terrorist unless you fire bombed buildings and issued death threats.   So far you don't strike me as a fire bomber.  People who use intimidation, violence, and threats as a means to justify saving lil ole rover deserve neither praise nor respect.  They should be treated as a terrorist organization and dealt with accordingly.  I'm sorry if this offends anyone but lets be realistic about this.  People are killing human beings to save ferrets, dogs, hamsters, and monkeys.  These people need to either be locked up in an insaneasylum or in a prison.  They need to be removed from society to make our society a better and safer place.

[LARA]

Any organization incapable of nonviolent protest just can't be taken seriously, IMAO.  They do more harm to achieving more reasonable and ethical treatment of research animals with actions like this.  I mean really, I care about animals, but when I read an article like this my thoughts are with the researchers and their families safety rather than the animals. I also think it stratifies people in the sciences a little and puts people who do care about animal welfare who go into science at a disadvantage because it creates a more anxious atmosphere, at least in my experience.  I had a frustrating time in a class once when we had to kill a mouse for hybridomas.  We were supposed to kill the mouse by cervical dislocation.  I had to ask my professor to show me how to kill it properly because I'd never done it before and didn't want to screw it up and cause the animal undue pain, which he did and the technique was very quick and humane.  But because I tried to be compassionate towards the animal and learn how to kill it properly, the T.A. criticized me and said I couldn't make it in the sciences if I couldn't kill a mouse.  Ironically, when I went on a job interview and told them about some of the classes I'd taken and I guess mentioned I had worked some with animals, I got shown rapidly to the door by one of the interviewers and told shortly that if I wanted to "play with animals" I could try getting a job elsewhere.  

It's just a damned sensitive issue.  People firebombing researchers don't make it any better, just worse.

[Big Mac]

I've been an "eco-terrorist" before (I chained myself to trees, I've been involved at sit-ins at SUV dealerships, etc.).

How the hell do you do a sit-in at an SUV dealership?

I mean the Canyonero would probably fit half you guys!!!

[Will]

Outdoor sit-ins are about numbers. Even the biggest dealerships can't deal with over maybe 400 protesters. The only problem is packing enough vegan lunches.  

[Big Mac]

Outdoor sit-ins are about numbers. Even the biggest dealerships can't deal with over maybe 400 protesters. The only problem is packing enough vegan lunches.  

No offense, but I don't see why you'd protest the dealership. It's not like they make people buy those sissified tanks that guzzle gas worse than Anna Nicole Smith at a bar. You'd be better off destroying some SUV's.

Just kidding around, you ever been arrested for doing that?

[Renegnicat]

yep. That's a complicated issue. Especially the greater good part, because what we essentially call the "greater good" applies mostly to humans, and not animals. argh... it just sucks either way. I own 4 dogs right now, and I love them very much. I wouldn't want them to be used for experiments.

[Will]

No offense, but I don't see why you'd protest the dealership. It's not like they make people buy those sissified tanks that guzzle gas worse than Anna Nicole Smith at a bar. You'd be better off destroying some SUV's.

Somehow I don't think burning SUV's is going to send a good message about helping the environment.

And the sit-ins were sweeping successes. Imagine if a large Hummer dealership went from selling a few dozen cars a day to none for a holiday weekend.

Just kidding around, you ever been arrested for doing that?

I've been tossed in the back of police cars a few times, when I was younger, but it's really easy to avoid that when you learn the ropes.

[Big Mac]

No offense, but I don't see why you'd protest the dealership. It's not like they make people buy those sissified tanks that guzzle gas worse than Anna Nicole Smith at a bar. You'd be better off destroying some SUV's.

Somehow I don't think burning SUV's is going to send a good message about helping the environment.

And the sit-ins were sweeping successes. Imagine if a large Hummer dealership went from selling a few dozen cars a day to none for a holiday weekend.

You don't feel a little bad for the guys who have families to feed?

Just kidding around, you ever been arrested for doing that?

I've been tossed in the back of police cars a few times, when I was younger, but it's really easy to avoid that when you learn the ropes.

I've only been frisked by the cops. I tend to know how to work them so they don't want to arrest me. Though that gets harder to play the whole "I'm just a dumb kid" routine as you push you mid twenties.

[Will]

You don't feel a little bad for the guys who have families to feed?

Do you think a police officer feels bad for a heroin dealer's family when he makes an arrest?

Anyway, the sit-in was mainly symbolic. Hummer died and got bought up by some foreign company and fuel efficient vehicles are flying off the lot. I see that as a small victory.

[Big Mac]

You don't feel a little bad for the guys who have families to feed?

Do you think a police officer feels bad for a heroin dealer's family when he makes an arrest?

Anyway, the sit-in was mainly symbolic. Hummer died and got bought up by some foreign company and fuel efficient vehicles are flying off the lot. I see that as a small victory.

Actually most cops I've met say it's the hardest thing to see the dealer's kids have so much confusion and rage in their eyes because they know this cycle will continue because even though daddy sold bad things the kid doesn't know that. All he knows is that these men with blue uniforms, shiny badges, and guns are hauling daddy off and tearing him away from them. He then becomes angry at every cop on the street, because confused without a father around, and becomes angry as the world begins to shut down around him. The only solution seems to be crime. Thus the broken cycle continues another generation.

However, these were people who had a legit, if disgustingly wasteful, business going. I personally feel that vehicles of that size are for one real purpose....military/industrial use. When I worked at the mall as security I'd see 20 of those god awful things parked outside Nordstrom and ONE person (almost always an older white woman with tons of bags) climbing into it and riding off for her 10 mpg highway rating. These are also the same people who complain about high gas prices coming from dirty Arabs and such.

Anyway, I think your analogy is flawed because these are not bad people selling poison. They're selling a vehicle that consumes a lot of gas. Yeah it's not good but I don't think it's inherently evil like Heroin.

[LoneMateria]

I understand this is your view Will and i'm really not trying to be an ass when I say this.  You are no police officer and the salesmen are no drug dealers.  I'm sure you can draw a few analogies between you and them but you can draw analogies from about anywhere for about anything.  Its not illegal to sell a Hummer.  People who own Hummers are probably not going to convince their friends to buy one like a druggie, they don't share the Hummer and go around breaking things or beat their wives because of it.

Police officers uphold justice not obstruct it based on their views... okay let me rephrase that ... Police officers are supposed to uphold justice and not obstruct it based on their personal views.  By you guys doing a sit in you are not upholding justice, you are beating up a few individuals out of many because you don't agree with their life choice that is perfectly legal.  Your sit in is the equivalent of a Fundamentalist Christian beating the piss out of someone for being an atheist and calling it God's Justice.  I'm sorry if this pissed you off but this is how I see it.  Maybe i'm not seeing the whole picture here but from what I've seen this is my conclusion.

[Ultima22689]

I think Hummers are indeed a  scourge upon this earth but I think I agree with LoneMateria, his post makes alot of sense although i'm sure Will's protest wasn't to punish those who buy hummers but to make a political statement to the general populace.