Live and let live

[xxMaryJane]

There's something I don't get.

Do theists believe they're going to make atheists ashamed by telling them they're going to hell, they're stupid, disrespectful, devilish... I could go on for hours with those names. I've been called ALL of them and some other juicier words.

At the same time,

Do atheists think they're going to make theists ashamed by telling THEM they're stupid, deluded, puppets ... See, it's kind of a weird way to debate on religion.

So I don't judge anybody's intelligence because of their belief. So they shouldn't as well.

Come on. Being an atheist myself, I don't believe I'd impress any religious person by telling them I'm SOO much smarter being an atheist than them, being theists. Same thing for them.
You can think like that, consciously  or inconsciously... A lot of people do. Sadly.

But, since we can't tell who's REALLY RIGHT until we die ( or well, if there's not god, maybe we won't find out the truth after we die and we won't be able to argue anymore ! Ha ! ), so I don't think we should call each other STUPID or LESS SMART because of our beliefs.

I've being called so many stupid names, people trying to make me feel bad for not believing or trying to scare me.. I feel very confortable with my beliefs and if you're trying to scare me with all sorts of things you know I don't even believe in, I think you're the scared one. Scared of what by the way ?

[i_am_i]

It's a nice sentiment but in reality i don't think it applies. Look at it this way: with a theist you're dealing with someone who believes in the supernatural. You're dealing with someone who chooses not to think or question. You're dealing with someone who believes, the same way that children believe in Santa Clause.
Now sure, okay, let them have a nice happy life and all that, and as long as they leave me alone I really don't care, but I just can't take such a person seriously. I have to question their intelligence in the same way I'd question the intelligence of someone who believes that white people are superior to all other races or that President Obama was not born in the United States.
I just don't think that people who believe are all that intelligent, or that intelligence even matters very much to them.

[Reginus]

Do theists believe they're going to make atheists ashamed by telling them they're going to hell, they're stupid, disrespectful, devilish... I could go on for hours with those names. I've been called ALL of them and some other juicier words.

Quite frankly, I don't know why some theists do this, as it is clearly counter-productive in almost every possible way. I think sometimes it has to do with pride, or maybe they say things like that to re-afirm their own beliefs in the face of doubt.

Come on. Being an atheist myself, I don't believe I'd impress any religious person by telling them I'm SOO much smarter being an atheist than them, being theists. Same thing for them.
You can think like that, consciously  or inconsciously... A lot of people do. Sadly.

Just about every person in the world thinks that the evidence for their belief (or disbelief) is stronger than that of opposition.

But, since we can't tell who's REALLY RIGHT until we die ( or well, if there's not god, maybe we won't find out the truth after we die and we won't be able to argue anymore ! Ha ! ), so I don't think we should call each other STUPID or LESS SMART because of our beliefs.

True enough. However, I think that both atheists and theists have a good reason to debate, in that the atheist thinks that being free of religion equals a better quality of life, and the Christian thinks that the atheist would be better off being a Christian.

I've being called so many stupid names, people trying to make me feel bad for not believing or trying to scare me.. I feel very confortable with my beliefs and if you're trying to scare me with all sorts of things you know I don't even believe in, I think you're the scared one. Scared of what by the way ?

Scared that they're not right  

[Reginus]

You're dealing with someone who believes, the same way that children believe in Santa Clause.

Meh, I've never heard of an atheist being converted to Santa Cluaseity

[i_am_i]

You're dealing with someone who believes, the same way that children believe in Santa Clause.

Meh, I've never heard of an atheist being converted to Santa Cluaseity

Can you explain what you mean by that?

[Reginus]

There are many examples of atheists who became Christians, Muslums, etc. on their own. I was saying that I've never heard of an atheist converted to belief in Santa Clause in the same way (or invisible pink unicorn, etc.) Basicaly, major religions cannot be simply be equated with belief in Santa Clause.

[i_am_i]

Basicaly, major religions cannot be simply be equated with belief in Santa Clause.

Why not? What's the difference between believing in God and believing in Santa Clause?

[Reginus]

Why not? What's the difference between believing in God and believing in Santa Clause?

Well, for one, Santa Clause provides an alternative answer to a question that can be naturalisticaly answered and proven (how did these presents get under the tree?), while God provides an answer to a number of meta-physical questions that cannot be naturalisticaly answered (ex. if the universe began to exist a finite time ago, and something cannot begin to exist for no reason, what caused the universe to begin to exist?)

[curiosityandthecat]

Why not? What's the difference between believing in God and believing in Santa Clause?

Well, for one, Santa Clause provides an alternative answer to a question that can be naturalisticaly answered and proven (how did these presents get under the tree?), while God provides an answer to a number of meta-physical questions that cannot be naturalisticaly answered (ex. if the universe began to exist a finite time ago, and something cannot begin to exist for no reason, what caused the universe to begin to exist?)

(insert random creation myth here).

[Reginus]

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[i_am_i]

... secondly, we have the problem of Jesus.

That problem being....?

[rlrose328]

I do believe there's a certain ignorance involved in someone who insists on believing in something that may or may not exist, like the little green martian on my desk who is in contact every day with our congressman in order to influence his voting on issues of importance, like gay marriage and whether my little martian friend can fly his saucer in Washington airspace.

Sounds silly, doesn't it?  But that's essentially what they believe.  Bush's little green martian told him to start a war.  My mom's little green martian won't let my gay friends get married.  All of the moms at my son's school that I've debated religion with know their little green martian will save them, help them, heal them... and me, just because they silently ask him to.

They are letting an ancient myth govern not only their lives but the lives of everyone else in this country (other countries, not as much... except the Islamic ones, who have their own interpretation of the martian).  

SO yes, there is ignorance involved.  I do believe I am somewhat superior for seeing through all of that and living my life in the painful reality of this life.  It's also slightly ignorant that they need a book to tell them how to behave... I don't need that, and neither do any of my atheist friends.  We know, because we see, we learn, we explore.  They do not.

They can call me whatever they choose to... blind.  Stupid.  Silly.  They can say I'll burn.  They can say I worship satan.  Whatevs.   Matters not to me whatsoever.

[Reginus]

... secondly, we have the problem of Jesus.

That problem being....?

Never mind, I shouldn't have said that , as it will only serve to bring this topic way off-course.

But Currio is right. The perticular meta-physical argument I suggested tells us nothing about the god, just that some sort of meta-physical mind exists.

[i_am_i]

... secondly, we have the problem of Jesus.

That problem being....?

Never mind, I shouldn't have said that , as it will only serve to bring this topic way off-course.

Hell, that's okay, let it get off-course. Really, I want to know what you meant by "the problem of Jesus" in how that affects my assertion that there's no difference between believing in God and believing in Santa Clause.

[Reginus]

Hell, that's okay, let it get off-course. Really, I want to know what you meant by "the problem of Jesus."

Hehe, well in summary (although there is a lot more to it,) it's this: How is it possible that the most influencial human ever to live never actualy existed?

If he did exist, then we have the classical problem: Jesus was either a lunitic, a worker for the devil, or the son of God (what he said he was). The first two seem increadibly unlikely, so we go with the last.