Heaven

[Jason]

First post: I won't introduce myself or dump my story.  I'm not sure where I am yet anyway.

So I grew up believing I was going to heaven when I die, and it was a rather comforting thought.  I can't see how it was harmful for my psychological development.  Sure, there was a few downsides, such if someone I really loved died an unbeliever and I had to lay awake at night thinking of them in hell; but actually that was a hypothetical downside, no unbeliever I really cared about died when I was young.

There are just so many advantages to thinking eternal bliss awaits.  I try to do well and provide for my family, but if we have less money then the next guy no big deal, this is all temporary.  Injury sucks but this is not all there is, I will have an-injury free body for eternity.  And so on and so forth, it makes us believers more generous, hey more treasures in heaven.  Some might argue it makes me not live for the now, and while I'm sure there are a few examples for the most part us believers don't REALLY make such huge sacrifices as to miss out on the only life we really have; and even some we do probably pay us off more in good feelings even in this life then their absence.

So now I'm thinking my whole religion is most likely bunk, and while I have no answers for the big questions I'm pretty sure the source of my previous answers (the Bible) is almost entirely made up.  And along with the certainly of my own religion flys out the certainty of an afterlife.  I don't see myself believing in some sort of heaven now.

But.... I got kids.  5 and 7.   My conversion (if it really happens) is recent, so they have been in church their whole lives.  And while we never tell them about hell, we often talk about heaven in a comforting way.  That we will be together there forever, that they need not worry truly losing us.  Indeed, consoling them about not fearing death is one of its best psychological advantages.  I don't want to be telling my kids that you die and that is all there is.  I think that might screw them up!

But then yesterday morning, my 5 year old asked if her webkinz will go to heaven with her.

So, I want to know what you veteran atheists out there think.  Some parts of my faith are easy to abandon, like implying (however Christians try to deny it) that they are inferior to men because they are girls, or that we need to take these silly answers from the old testament law as something a god would say, or that they need to FEAR anything science or actual history might teach us.  Sign me up!  But the afterlife, I don't know what to do with that one.  It seems all the normative religious people who believe something all the while not really taking the Bible very seriously have the best of both worlds.  They don't have a set of dogma that must be adhered to regardless of how antequated or biased it is; but they still can feel a God loves them and is protecting them, derive some sense of purpose, and believe death is only the beginning.    

HELP!

[curiosityandthecat]

I think it can be summed up best in the ubiquitous Carl Sagan quote:

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

As for how to deal with raising well-adjusted, intelligent, realistic children, I'll leave that to the parents here. I mean, I was raised to question and I turned out all right.

 

[hismikeness]

But.... I got kids. 5 and 7. My conversion (if it really happens) is recent, so they have been in church their whole lives. And while we never tell them about hell, we often talk about heaven in a comforting way.

I think for a 5 and 7 year old, Heaven is a comforting thought. At that age, it seems a way to be calm and not worry about death. Just the fact that they ask questions means they are thinking about what happens when the lights go out, and that is a great thing. It is a good thing that Hell isn't hung over their heads, that is extremely macabre.  

As they get past Santa Claus belief age, they will think further, and without a religion to drastically curtail their critical thoughts about life and death, they will come to their own answers.

I don't have kids. I have a niece and a nephew, 4 and 3, and I would hope that they will be allowed to think critically. There parents are great people, staunch Catholics (as I was raised) and on the nights that I've babysat for them and put the little ones to bed they've asked me to pray with them because that's what mom and dad do. I do... but only to ease their minds and let them sleep. Besides, they aren't my kids, so I don't think it's my place to not pray with them.

Love the kiddos. That is the important part. Your struggles with Heaven are just that... yours. Guide them, but ultimately they will make their own choices.

Hismikeness.

[Jason]

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

Sagan's the man, and for the most part I would agree with this quote.  But I can always come up with situations where living in delusion might be better.  For instance, I don't need to really know what my wife thinks about me losing my hair.  I'll take her comforting words and not press to hard.

As they get past Santa Claus belief age, they will think further, and without a religion to drastically curtail their critical thoughts about life and death, they will come to their own answers.

I suppose a first step is to get them out of the evangelical church where such matters of heaven and hell are discussed regularly.  You guys are on the ground floor of this one, while I have struggled with heavy doubts for more then a year it literally was this past weekend that I attended church for the first time with the knowledge that I didn't even believe in the most fundamental statements of my faith (namely that about Jesus).  While my wife has expressed heavy doubts and even mildly suggested we "take a break", I don't think she is quite where I am at and I haven't really spilled it yet.  I need to wait until we are both drinking  

[jcm]

I think it can be summed up best in the ubiquitous Carl Sagan quote:

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

As for how to deal with raising well-adjusted, intelligent, realistic children, I'll leave that to the parents here. I mean, I was raised to question and I turned out all right.

 

Say...that is a pretty good quote

Another good quote is one I read today: Confusion is always the most honest response.  - Marty Indik

I have no problem with "I don't know" When I was a lot younger I remember hearing that no one knows how the universe was created. Not knowing everything was rather comforting to me at an early age, because it meant that I needed find out for myself. I was driven to discover answers to life's most difficult problems. Years later I nowhere close to answering them, but it feels good to know that I tried. I would rather honestly say I don't know than to believe something that simply fill gaps in what I can know.

[Heretical Rants]

I actually don't think heaven sounds all that great.

Pretend you're in heaven.  What would you do?
You have nothing to accomplish-no goals, no fight, no pride-you're always happy, and part of you has been stripped away so it wouldn't really even be you up there.

Plus, you'll be there forever.  I think I would start to feel trapped.


Lolling around in the clouds?  No, thanks.

[Tom62]

Why would anyone get bored in heaven? I've got proof, that it is everyday Christmas in heaven; that they've got the latest movies on TV and play video games.

[youtube:n7auwebu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmZYIyySxPE[/youtube:n7auwebu]

[Heretical Rants]

But how could you possibly accomplish anything meaningful up---

Wait... video games?

[curiosityandthecat]

Haha, Monty Python for the win.