God is TRUE - Some proofs!

[Geir]

Some of you say that I am arbitrator in my counting. Tell me what is arbitrary in this fact that I have presented earlier:

God, in relation to the creation of Man, refers to several things in the Quran such as water, clay, sperm and clot. The only one of these that has got a chapter named after it is the clot. Chapter 96 is named "The Clot" - in Arabic: Ala'lq. This word in Arabic refers to that cell assembly that forms as the egg gets fertilized. The word God "Allah" appears only once in this chapter in verse 14. The interesting thing is that this occurrence of the word "Allah" is the 2691st from Qurans beginning. This number, 2691, divides perfectly by human haploid chromosome number 23. It's equal to 23 x 117.

Not only that. This same occurrence is the 9th from the end of the Quran. The 9th prime number in universe is 23.

The word God gets main focus since it in many places it relates to chromosome number or atomic numbers etc.

The only two chapters that relate in very direct way to human creation is chapter number 96 "The Clot" and chapter number 76 "The Human". I am systematic in my counting. Consider this:

For each chapter of these two we write the chapter number and next to it the number of verses up to it (Arabic is right to left so chapters number is to the right of verse number):

559176 equals 46 x 12156
and
610696 equals 46 x 13276

(46 is human chromosome number)

I am really interested in open discussion.

[curiosityandthecat]

The leading assumption is, as far as I can tell, that these numerical "proofs" were not intended at the time of writing, and thus must be divinely inspired. Correct?

[PipeBox]

The leading assumption is, as far as I can tell, that these numerical "proofs" were not intended at the time of writing, and thus must be divinely inspired. Correct?

Well, they really couldn't have been, since I'm pretty sure a written, unaltered copy has been around since before we knew how many chromosomes we had or what isotopes of iron were possible, and almost certainly the chromosome count of a bee.  Rather, the method for obtaining the needed numbers is what is dodgy.  It isn't consistent each time, and the operators vary as required.  Need 5 and it's divisible by the 5th prime?  Win.  Looking for 46 when it divides by a host of other numbers?  Got it.  Need 16 and it's the 16th chapter?  Bingo.  Rather, this reads like a couple coincidences and an epic desperation to do whatever 2- or 3-step math is necessary to get the desired output.

[curiosityandthecat]

Well, they really couldn't have been, since I'm pretty sure a written, unaltered copy has been around since before we knew how many chromosomes we had or what isotopes of iron were possible, and almost certainly the chromosome count of a bee.  Rather, the method for obtaining the needed numbers is what is dodgy.  It isn't consistent each time, and the operators vary as required.  Need 5 and it's divisible by the 5th prime?  Win.  Looking for 46 when it divides by a host of other numbers?  Got it.  Need 16 and it's the 16th chapter?  Bingo.  Rather, this reads like a couple coincidences and an epic desperation to do whatever 2- or 3-step math is necessary to get the desired output.

Well, obviously, yes.   But I'm just trying to clearly define Geir's assertion, in which case it wouldn't really matter if we had a copy before the number of chromosomes was found scientifically. I think that's the point he's making, much like Risky was trying to make last year: we didn't know but the Qu'ran says so, therefore, God. I just want to see if that's the underlying assumption, that the writers couldn't have known these things, thus the fact that they are found in the book makes them divine.

[Geir]

I am presenting facts and it's up to each reader to make their mind if these are coincidences or something else.

Just think about it:
The 26th word God occurrence in this chapter is in the verse mentioning iron.
This same word is the 26th in verse
This word is also the 2444th occurrence of the word God from Qurans beginning. 2444 is 26 x 94
The last letter in this word is the 104th in verse (26 x 4)
Letters match at the 26 multiples positions in verse and at the position corresponding to the atomic weight of the most abundant iron isotope
28 isotopes and 28 words in verse
The number of this chapter, assigned 1430 years ago, 57 corresponds to the atomic weight of the isotope that is in the middle of the three most stables isotopes of iron.

Note: 26 is the atomic number of Iron.

[curiosityandthecat]

Geir, you're avoiding. Is your assertion that these "facts" were placed in the Qu'ran before being discovered scientifically, making the book divine?

[joeactor]

About the Moby Dick thing.. You can't compare since in the Moby Dick some letters were skipped. In the things I present nothing is skipped.

You're joking, right?  You skip around the book and cherry pick passages to support your assertions.

At least with the Moby Dick prediction, a mathematical formula was used.  Letters were not skipped in a random order, but in a specific sequence.  That's why it must be true! (jk)

Tell you what, if you can present any holy book that actually states in a clear, unambiguous manner any of the following, then I'll be glad to take a look:
1) "The Atomic Number of Iron is 26"
2) "The Number of Human Chomosomes is 46"
3) ... any truly accurate predicion about the future (no, not a vague "could be interpretted 1.5 millon ways" quote.  Clear.  Unambiguous.)

Until you can present some real evidence, all the rest is just playing mental games with yourself.

I'll stick with the Princess Di prediction in Moby Dick,
JoeActor

[PipeBox]

Joe, just to play the, uhh, devil's advocate, how would a god explain to us what he wanted to say in ancient times?  I mean, he can't have used perfect English, lest we claim we took the word "chromosome" into our vocabulary just because a holy book said man had 46, and scientists said "oh, cool, 46 and 46, let's call it that" just like they did with Genesis.  There were no words in the native language, nor any language at the time to reliably describe chromosomes.  Trying to would just make you sound like, I imagine, more of the same.  Though I guess "The number of a man is 46" and "Iron number's is 26" would be very solid.  Still, to actually try describing what these numbers applied to?  Methinks that's how we get "wheels in wheels" and "angel whose skin was bronze and whose legs were as pillars of fire," so I can't say for sure we'd catch it right off.  Just out of curiosity, anyone aware of Bible/Koran/Talmud verses that sound like archaic descriptions for now-understood structures in biology, chemistry, or some area of cosmology or physics?  I mean, they've GOT to be there in droves with such a large sample size, but I think it's an interesting thing, even though it is hogwash.  Kinda like most conspiracy theories.  Good for the entertainment.  

[Hitsumei]

I am presenting facts and it's up to each reader to make their mind if these are coincidences or something else.

They aren't even coincidences, the patterns are entirely projected.

[Hitsumei]

Joe, just to play the, uhh, devil's advocate, how would a god explain to us what he wanted to say in ancient times? I mean, he can't have used perfect English, lest we claim we took the word "chromosome" into our vocabulary just because a holy book said man had 46, and scientists said "oh, cool, 46 and 46, let's call it that" just like they did with Genesis.  There were no words in the native language, nor any language at the time to reliably describe chromosomes.  Trying to would just make you sound like, I imagine, more of the same.  Though I guess "The number of a man is 46" and "Iron number's is 26" would be very solid.  Still, to actually try describing what these numbers applied to?  Methinks that's how we get "wheels in wheels" and "angel whose skin was bronze and whose legs were as pillars of fire," so I can't say for sure we'd catch it right off.  Just out of curiosity, anyone aware of Bible/Koran/Talmud verses that sound like archaic descriptions for now-understood structures in biology, chemistry, or some area of cosmology or physics?  I mean, they've GOT to be there in droves with such a large sample size, but I think it's an interesting thing, even though it is hogwash.  Kinda like most conspiracy theories.  Good for the entertainment.  

God wouldn't have to explain anything, she could just make it so that you know. The explanations devised by the people that understood it would probably involve inventing words to correspond to the new concepts the roots of which have some vague connection to the concept they are attempting to convey.

The same way that we explain anything to anyone. Someone with a nuanced grasp of particle physics could write entire books about it whether they had to invent their terminology or not. We do that kind of thing all the time whenever a new branch of knowledge opens up.  

Besides, I always found the idea that god dictated the bible so that it would be comprehensible to a small band of goat herders, as opposed to writing it to be comprehensible to all humanity for all time to be strange.

[joeactor]

Joe, just to play the, uhh, devil's advocate, how would a god explain to us what he wanted to say in ancient times?  I mean, he can't have used perfect English...

I see what you mean.
But this is "God" (with a capital "G").  He should be able to inspire the writer to put anything down on the page that he wants.

I'd settle for sound-alikes even "And, lo, the Almighty Muckity-Muck created man (and woman) to contain many many many copies of 46 very small things.  And these things shall have a special name of kromasoam..."

God created the universe - so, he can't create a few words?

Or, why doesn't god inspire people to write today, or speak to them?
Oh... wait... we have names and drugs for people like that now.

I wonder if God is in the DSM-IV?
JoeActor

[curiosityandthecat]

Ooh, ooh, let me play the fundie for a second!

*ahem*...

"God works in mysterious ways."

How was I?  

[karadan]

Ooh, ooh, let me play the fundie for a second!

*ahem*...

"God works in mysterious ways."

How was I?  

Sublime sir. Sublime.

[Sophus]

Here is a challenge for you who don't believe in God.

I'M SCARED!

[SSY]

I have a copy of Ulysses next to me, lets see if this is also the word of god shall we?

We start with the author, James Joyce, j is the 10th letter, and there are 2 of them

so, 10^2 is 100,page 100,  the 10th line, 10th word is "to"

to, or 20+15 if we take their positions in the alphabet. The 35th word on the page is "design"

Design, as in God's design for the human body and soul. "body and soul" has 11 letters. 11 is the 4th prime

4*11 is 44, or the chromasone number of the European Badger, which weigh, on average, 10Kg.

Those who beleive in christ are said to have euphoric happiness, sometimes described as FLOATING, hydrogen is the lightest element and therefor, floats the best.

The Rydberg constant ( determing the seperation of hydrogen energy levels)  is 13.8 ( eV)

10*13.8 is 138, which, when divided by 2 ( the number of js in James Joyce ) gives, nothing other than 46.

I will let you decide for yourself whether this is a coincidence or not, but I think we all Know whats REALLY going on here.