God allows evil so he looks better... WTF?

[PipeBox]

Well, thanks for discussing it openly with me.  I guess I can't argue with you, if I thought I was observing the Christian God, I'd believe in him too.

As it is, when I look at the sky, I feel a deep awe, because I am so small and it is so expansive and amazing.  I am a part of it, because there is no denying that I am surrounded the rest of the universe, buried in it, it touching me on all sides, and there is no denying that I'm made of the universe.  I'm a sentient piece of the universe trying to learn about itself.  The thought gives me a feeling I can scarcely explain, something that is so humble and proud and moving.  The sky is also a symbol of permanence.  Nothing lasts forever, but there are some things I can't screw up.  No matter how badly I flub up my life, the stars will still shine.

I do not see God in this, though I can't eliminate the possibility he is there.  The same can be said of Brahma.  I don't know what I see or feel beyond the natural, if there is anything there, but I definitely cannot discern it if it.  I can't even assert that everyone should feel the same as me, as they clearly don't.  You feel life is a gift from God (I think) and I just feel life is awesome.  I can know that much, that I am alive and I enjoy the experience.  I don't see God spelled out in the stars, and I haven't thought of any of my feelings as beyond explanation.  If any god exists, it hasn't made its impression on me.  Until it does, and I don't suspect there ever will be a divine revelation for me, I just want to keep on learning and goofing around.  Mostly goofing around.

Nietzsche once said that the bowels of the universe do not speak unto man, except as man.  I see the same universe you do, I see where all the points of light lie, I do not hear them telling me of God.  I just see them and think they're bloody stonking awesome.

Cheers.  

[Ben-AG]

Well, thanks for discussing it openly with me.  I guess I can't argue with you, if I thought I was observing the Christian God, I'd believe in him too.

As it is, when I look at the sky, I feel a deep awe, because I am so small and it is so expansive and amazing.  I am a part of it, because there is no denying that I am surrounded the rest of the universe, buried in it, it touching me on all sides, and there is no denying that I'm made of the universe.  I'm a sentient piece of the universe trying to learn about itself.  The thought gives me a feeling I can scarcely explain, something that is so humble and proud and moving.  The sky is also a symbol of permanence.  Nothing lasts forever, but there are some things I can't screw up.  No matter how badly I flub up my life, the stars will still shine.

I do not see God in this, though I can't eliminate the possibility he is there.  The same can be said of Brahma.  I don't know what I see or feel beyond the natural, if there is anything there, but I definitely cannot discern it if it.  I can't even assert that everyone should feel the same as me, as they clearly don't.  You feel life is a gift from God (I think) and I just feel life is awesome.  I can know that much, that I am alive and I enjoy the experience.  I don't see God spelled out in the stars, and I haven't thought of any of my feelings as beyond explanation.  If any god exists, it hasn't made its impression on me.  Until it does, and I don't suspect there ever will be a divine revelation for me, I just want to keep on learning and goofing around.  Mostly goofing around.

Nietzsche once said that the bowels of the universe do not speak unto man, except as man.  I see the same universe you do, I see where all the points of light lie, I do not hear them telling me of God.  I just see them and think they're bloody stonking awesome.

Cheers.    That is awesome.  You and I are not much different.  I just want to make clear to you, not that this is what you are implying, the vastness and greatness of the universe is not the only reason that brought me to accept Christianity.  It was extravagant and glorious before I came to know Christ, and, after, it was all that and more.

[PipeBox]

Understood.  I was a Christian once, though, and I thought the universe was made just for us, part of God's grand design.  Now that I no longer believe that, I think it is even more amazing.  That none of this was planned or preconceived -- the idea that it wasn't promised to me, that it wasn't man's inheritance for all of eternity before it existed -- that makes it so much more profound to me.

Oh, and sorry Joe, I know this is getting off topic, but there isn't much left to tread unless another theist wants to take up the cause.  I'd say the debate on evil is finished insofar as debating it with Ben goes.

[joeactor]

Oh, and sorry Joe, I know this is getting off topic, but there isn't much left to tread unless another theist wants to take up the cause.  I'd say the debate on evil is finished insofar as debating it with Ben goes.

No worries.  Good discussion.  Both sides are pretty clear.  Some agreements, some difference of opinion/interpretation.

In the end, I'm not sure most of these questions have "answers" in the empirical sense...

Time for a  
JoeActor

[Heretical Rants]

In all fairness, I felt the love of Santa Claus when I was a child...

Actually, Santa Claus scared me.  To me he was a creepy guy at the mall that smelled of cigars and cheap wine and wanted to come into my house.

On topic:  If God made us, he could have made it so we experienced the good just as well without having to deal with "Evil", surely?

With a being that can do whatever the hell it wants, how would we know that God wasn't just having a bit of fun with the evil bits, and gave us the good to make the evil so much worse?  He certainly has committed some pretty horrific acts, if you believe the Bible.

It would be so easy to lie and say that you were "love", not a sadist.

Hitler said that you should lie to the people--the bigger the lies, the better.  This would certainly be a good one...