Pslam23's Hijack of: "For theists: What is an atheist?"

[Twiddler]

This is preaching, Psalm23, which is against our forum rules. We welcome all viewpoints here, but we don't tolerate excessive rudeness or people who only come here to cause trouble. You will tone down your rhetoric or you will have to leave. This place is for happy people (notice that the word "happy" comes before "atheist" in the title of the forum), and it's pretty clear you're here to make people unhappy.

Dear Moderator, I'm sorry if you view my posts as, "preaching." I don't think I used any Bible verses in my postings. All I did was come in here with my "point of view," and you blow the whistle on me. I have debated with literally thousands of atheists in my life, and they are far from, "happy," as you describe.

Here's an example; I had an atheist tell me one time, "God is a tyrant!"

My rebutal, How can God be a tyrant if he doesn't exist in the mind of an atheist?

Dear Moderators of Happy atheist forum.

If you and your members can claim, "God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence." Then I'm sure you have explored the entire Universe thoroughly, right?

If I place a pin in a 2,500 acre field, but you are only capable of exploring only 500 acres of that field.. then how can you say, "there is no evidence that pin is in that field?" -- The atheist argument against God is not very stable.

Have a wonderful day,
Psalm 23.

I'm glad you took the time out of your busy schedule to read all of the logical responses you got to this argument the last time you used it.  Oh wait...  

[Kylyssa]

If you surf the World Wide Web, you will see that most likely 95% of atheistic web forums or bulletin boards discuss only the Christian God.

You will also see that 99% of the people who evangelize are Christian and 99% of people forcing their religious tenets into law are Christian.  

I've been beaten, abused, evangelized and discriminated against by Christians but not by a single Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or Pagan due to my absence of belief.  In the event that I am, I'll start complaining about it everywhere I can.

I've never seen any religious group but Christians lobbying to make their religious tenets into law in my country.  The minute they do, they'll be the topic of conversation.

Well I can say, I'm sorry you have been abused by Christians, but as I read the words of Jesus.. he did NOT condone this behavior from his followers. Jesus said very strictly to them; "DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS!" The Christian(s) that abused you are not true warriors for Christ! They are false!

Isn't interesting how the second a Christian does something wrong, he is instantly disowned?  Perhaps you believe only other things people who worship exactly as you do are Christians.  However, people are motivated to do these things that you disapprove of by their belief.  

I note that you find nothing wrong with evangelizing, discriminating against atheists, or forcing everyone to obey the biblical laws some religious folks have cherry picked.  You only specifically mentioned that the abuse was wrong.  I doubt you would feel that way if the majority religion were not your own - or are you saying you wouldn't mind if people discriminated against you in the workplace for being Christian or forced their religious laws on you?  What if those religious rules they tried to force upon you included keeping women veiled and segregated from men such as what some sects of Muslims do?  Would you just be a good little doobie and let the majority Muslims do whatever they wanted whether it infringed on your freedoms or not?  Would you sit back and allow your children to be required to say "one nation under Allah" and watch them beaten by Muslim children with no interference by teachers because they are Christian?  Would you allow Muslims to make it illegal to drink alcohol or to keep a dog as a house pet?  If you wouldn't, if you would protest, then you should be able to understand why atheists protest against Christians making laws based on their religious beliefs using the force of majority.

[Psalm23]

If you and your members can claim, "God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence." Then I'm sure you have explored the entire Universe thoroughly, right?

If I place a pin in a 2,500 acre field, but you are only capable of exploring only 500 acres of that field.. then how can you say, "there is no evidence that pin is in that field?" -- The atheist argument against God is not very stable.

Ah, wait!

It all makes sense now...

God's name is "Waldo".

...

Worst.  Hide-n-Seek.  Ever.

p.s. I thought god was everywhere... should be easy to find... and prove.

Literally thousands of atheists and non-Christians are finding God on a daily basis. Muslims in the Middle East are even throwing away their Qu'ran to study about Jesus Christ. Even though they know their lives are in danger of following the Christ. They still convert to the Truth every day.

[Sophus]

Literally thousands of atheists and non-Christians are finding God on a daily basis. Muslims in the Middle East are even throwing away their Qu'ran to study about Jesus Christ. Even though they know their lives are in danger of following the Christ. They still convert to the Truth every day.

First of all - you're wrong   Check your statistics. Secondly, actual atheists probably rarily ever convert. Secular theist or agnostics (whom may be self procalimed atheists out of ignorance of its meaning) who haven't given the gospel much thought are the ones any religion is converting. Come to think of it, they're really more like apatheists turned religious.

[McQ]

Literally thousands of atheists and non-Christians are finding God on a daily basis. Muslims in the Middle East are even throwing away their Qu'ran to study about Jesus Christ. Even though they know their lives are in danger of following the Christ. They still convert to the Truth every day.

First of all - you're wrong  

[joeactor]

Literally thousands of atheists and non-Christians are finding God on a daily basis. Muslims in the Middle East are even throwing away their Qu'ran to study about Jesus Christ. Even though they know their lives are in danger of following the Christ. They still convert to the Truth every day.

The last I checked, real "Truth" is not governed by what humans believe.

People used to believe the world was flat, the sun revolved around it, and disease was caused by an imbalance in one or more of the four humours.  Were those "True" when they believed them?

I stand by my prior statement.  With so many people believing in one god or another for thousands of years, you'd think a good number would have come up with some concrete proof by now.

It's all feelings, personal experience and angels dancing on the heads of pins.

Don't get me wrong... I understand that Christianity has co-opted the term "The Truth" as their own special phrase, along with many others like "Science", or "Intelligent".  But that is just misleading in my opinion.  Heck, even Jesus and the cross were borrowed, er., "liberated" from other religions.

So, maybe you're right.  People find "The Truth" all the time... just not "The Facts", or anything useful enough to prove "The Truth".

I'm a theist because I believe in the absence of proof.

I'm agnostic because there is no proof I've seen thus far.

Show me "The Way",
JoeActor

[McQ]

So, maybe you're right.  People find "The Truth" all the time... just not "The Facts", or anything useful enough to prove "The Truth".

I'm a theist because I believe in the absence of proof.

I'm agnostic because there is no proof I've seen thus far.

JoeActor

I know you've stated this in one way or another before, but I really like that statement. Well spake, sir.  

[Will]

Dear Moderators of Happy atheist forum.

If you and your members can claim, "God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence." Then I'm sure you have explored the entire Universe thoroughly, right?

If I place a pin in a 2,500 acre field, but you are only capable of exploring only 500 acres of that field.. then how can you say, "there is no evidence that pin is in that field?" -- The atheist argument against God is not very stable.

Have a wonderful day,
Psalm 23.

You still don't know what atheism is. That tells me you've never had an actual debate with an atheist, just the shouting matches you've started here. I don't like shouting matches because they can bring out the worst even in otherwise peaceful and respectful people. I especially don't like them when they disrupt my favorite forum.

An atheist doesn't believe there is no god, we disbelieve the existence of god. In that lies the quintessential difference. Atheists generally are not absolute in the belief that god does not exist, instead simply stating that they do not believe in god. The same way we don't believe in leprechauns. Or unicorns. Sure, it's possible they may exist, but because there is absolutely, positively no credible evidence supporting god's existence, there's absolutely, positively no reason to belief in his/her/its existence. That's atheism. Those are atheists.

You are confusing atheism with antitheism. Antitheism is the exact opposite of theism: it's the absolute belief that there is no god.

[Kevin]

Dear Moderators of Happy atheist forum.

If you and your members can claim, "God doesn't exist due to lack of evidence." Then I'm sure you have explored the entire Universe thoroughly, right?

If I place a pin in a 2,500 acre field, but you are only capable of exploring only 500 acres of that field.. then how can you say, "there is no evidence that pin is in that field?" -- The atheist argument against God is not very stable.

Have a wonderful day,
Psalm 23.

You still don't know what atheism is. That tells me you've never had an actual debate with an atheist, just the shouting matches you've started here. I don't like shouting matches because they can bring out the worst even in otherwise peaceful and respectful people. I especially don't like them when they disrupt my favorite forum.

An atheist doesn't believe there is no god, we disbelieve the existence of god. In that lies the quintessential difference. Atheists generally are not absolute in the belief that god does not exist, instead simply stating that they do not believe in god. The same way we don't believe in leprechauns. Or unicorns. Sure, it's possible they may exist, but because there is absolutely, positively no credible evidence supporting god's existence, there's absolutely, positively no reason to belief in his/her/its existence. That's atheism. Those are atheists.

You are confusing atheism with antitheism. Antitheism is the exact opposite of theism: it's the absolute belief that there is no god.

Owned, I must say.
And Psalms, your argument with the football field pin whatever thing is unstable, as well. EXTREMELY. Assuming your god is the creator with that argument is just about the same as atheists assuming your god is not the creator with that argument. You assume because you can't see the rest of the field, so you think there may be a god there, we assume there isn't because there already is no evidence of that god in the field. If humans are God's special creations, then there would be more evidence of his/her/it/whatever's existence here on where humans reside.

[Psalm23]

DONT BELIEVE IN PETERPAN AND YOU WILL BURN IN HELL!!

If you choose to live a Godless life.. why would God place you in Heaven? He is granting your wishes by sending you into a Godless enviroment, forever, and ever!! and this is how you re-pay him?

no it is NOT being foced onto you

Nothing was forced onto me.

and btw why DON'T you believe in peter pan?

I don't ever remember Walt Disney explaining how Peter Pan is an Invisible Force that lives outside of our time?

We haven't even scratched the surface of the universe yet!

I don't recall Walt Disney ever explaining how Peter Pan created the Universe with "invisible atoms". Found in Hebrew "God crafted the World's with materials that cannot be seen".

Isn't that just totally frickin' awesome!! The Bible is definitely a Supernatural-Inspired masterpiece!

How in the world did the ancient Jews know the Universe came from things that are invisible to the naked eye!!?? (Atoms)

[Psalm23]

Owned, I must say.
And Psalms, your argument with the football field pin whatever thing is unstable, as well. EXTREMELY. Assuming your god is the creator with that argument is just about the same as atheists assuming your god is not the creator with that argument. You assume because you can't see the rest of the field, so you think there may be a god there, we assume there isn't because there already is no evidence of that god in the field. If humans are God's special creations, then there would be more evidence of his/her/it/whatever's existence here on where humans reside.

The Football Field arguement cannot be defeated by any atheist or Scientist. It's impossible to say for 100% fact that "God does not exist". The Bible has explained to us over and over, "God cannot be seen, or you shall surely die!" Only a small few people were chosen to witness God, but not in all of his Glory. Moses only witnessed God's backside.

Do you know how I found God? When I was saved.. I felt this weight lift off of my shoulders.. and it felt like my soul was cleansed, and my life was re-newed. I felt the Love and Compassion glowing from God.. It's a feeling I have never ever felt in all of my 35 years of my life.

Everyone wants to feel that experience some time throughout their life. That's why Muslims are risking their lives and converting to Christianity all across the Middle East. I know of atheists who have found God. And they tell me, "I seriously cannot believe I was blind-folded for 40 years of my life, I was such a fool!!" One atheist told me the other day, "I doubt God will ever forgive me".

Just remember.. Just because atheists say "God isn't there," that doesn't mean it's true. Quit living a 50/50 chance. It's just not worth it in the end.

Atheists say, "There is no God.. enjoy life!!"

Heck, I believe in God, and life is awesome!! I said I believe in God.. I didn't say I was a High Priest, or a Pope. Of course I sin daily.. but that's the awesomeness about Christianity... In the end.. if you believe..and you know deep down what you did was wrong.. All is forgiven!

How can any atheist claim "God is a killer??" God offers us eternal life. That's pretty far from a killer..

[Sorz]

I was a disbeliever before I came across Pastafarianism.
I realised when the noodely appendage of the lord was upon me, the great pressures of life were no more.
I am saved, you can be too.

Just have faith.
Just believe.
Is it that hard to do?
Just believe in the flying spaghetti monster, or you will suffer in hell.
No one is forcing you, so if you don't believe you will be sent to hell.
Believe.
 

[Will]

The Football Field arguement cannot be defeated by any atheist or Scientist. It's impossible to say for 100% fact that "God does not exist".

Again, an atheist doesn't necessarily believe there is no god, we disbelieve the existence of god. That's atheism.

Do you know how I found God? When I was saved.. I felt this weight lift off of my shoulders.. and it felt like my soul was cleansed, and my life was re-newed. I felt the Love and Compassion glowing from God.. It's a feeling I have never ever felt in all of my 35 years of my life.

People have reported feeling the presence of the divine since long before Christianity. Why would your experience be any more or less real than someone feeling the weight lifted off their shoulders, feeling cleansed and renewed because of Apollo? Or Ba'al?

How can any atheist claim "God is a killer??"

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." It's not either or with killing and saving, it's both and.

Here's a list of people the god character killed in the Bible. It ends up somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.3 million, but that doesn't include the global flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the first-born Egyptians as there's no way to be certain of those numbers. If I had to guess, it'd probably be closer to 12 million.

[rlrose328]

Do you know how I found God? When I was saved.. I felt this weight lift off of my shoulders.. and it felt like my soul was cleansed, and my life was re-newed. I felt the Love and Compassion glowing from God.. It's a feeling I have never ever felt in all of my 35 years of my life.

That is nearly word-for-word what I felt when I said, "I'm an atheist," outloud for the first time.  Weight of lies lifted from my shoulders... no more guilt pressed upon me by religious fanatics.  I felt my mind cleansed of the lies of religion.  My was renewed in facts and reality and logic.  I felt love and compassion from my fellow humans who care to give it and the rest, I don't care.  It is indeed a feeling I had never felt in all of my 40 years.

You keep saying how we can't prove 100% that god doesn't exist.  Yet you continue to insist that he DOES exist, 100%, because you feel it and because the bible says no one can see god, therefore he must be real.

The rules must apply to both sides, my delusional friend.  NO ONE can prove that god exists.  And absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence.

[joeactor]

Hope y'all don't mind a little rambling, but the "Football Field" analogy sparked a memory of a prior conversation I had in the past...

To recap the original statement:  If god was like a needle hidden in a field, unless atheists search the entire field, they cannot be 100% sure that god does not exist (hope that's an accurate recap)

The problem with this is that the search can never be good enough for true believers in god.
If the atheists had searched the entire field, believers might say "what if god was moving, and you were in one part of the field while he was in another?"  or "what if god didn't want to be found in order to test your faith?"  You can see how there are an unlimited number of ways to discredit non-believers, no matter how hard they've searched the field.

The conversation reminded me of one happened several years ago.

I was working with a group of Born Again Christians who would meet for breakfast every week to chat.
I joined them from time to time, as they were a friendly bunch and we had things other than religion in common.
One of the newer members said something like the following:
"I feel like I'm in the cheap bleacher seats at a stadium concert, and god is way down on the stage.  I'm not as close as I'd like to be, but at least I'm in the stadium."
The others nodded, and there were generally good feelings around the table.
My reply was simply: "Do you think there are other stadiums?"

Now, granted, I can be a smart-ass at times, but this one statement illustrates a valid point:  Our notions of god or gods seem to be best expressed through analogy.  No matter how good the analogy may seem to believers, it's only because they're unwilling or unable to expand their horizons and visit "other stadiums".

In my experience, the truth can only be gimpsed through the eyes of many.  No single man or group has the answer.  That is if the answer exists...

Is it Stadiums or Stadii?,
JoeActor