Advice Please - Can't Shake the Thoughts Out of my Head

[liveyoungdiefast]

Well I think I'll do an introduction thread and I won't go into too much about me here, but I'll give some background information. I currently consider myself a pantheist, in the similar type of way I have heard many secular humanist people describe it, that I have a reverence for the vastness of the universe and the life supporting nature of Earth in a spiritual way, but I don't believe in a personal god or any type of being that planned out everything.

 My problem is that though I am happy with my life, and my rationality tells me I'm living just fine, I can't stop having these 'what if I'm wrong?' kinds of thoughts. Now it might be more natural if I was raised in a fundamentalist home but I wasn't. My parents are Roman Catholics and very moderate ones, I'm openly non-religious with them and they don't mind, we retain a good relationship and they don't do any of that fire and brimstone crap, they care more that I'm just a decent person. So they were good parents and really never indoctrinated me. Most of my exposure to these fundamentalist Christian beliefs came out of my own free will. I'm a curious person, I like to read a lot, and I search anything, including the point of view of all of these religious nut.

 So let me break off and tell you something else. I'm an OCD person, of a moderate case. I sequentially check websites in a specific order every day, count various motions with the number 36, always balance out my sense of touch, a variety of small rituals. This of course is a neurological oddity that is just another fluke of nature and really doesn't interfere with my life at all. But I have obsessive thoughts, including these ridiculous ideas where I want to entertain the thought of fundamentalist Christianity as true. And I argue with the fundamentalists too, who tell me all of the fire and brimstone bullshit, which I really am not concerned about, I'm as sure there's no judgment day or hell as I'm sure there's no flying spaghetti monster, but in some ways the thoughts are so persistent in my mind that this 'what if' shit, makes me constantly discontent. And I've also told the fundamentalists I'd rather just die and not exist then go to heaven and all my non-religious friends, including the person I love more than anything else, go to hell, but it's really annoying to put up with my mind trying to process their point of view constantly. One particular good Christian told me that not only would me and the person I love go to hell forever, but God would also cause us to hate each other as an additional punishment (such good people these religious preachers are!).

 Anyway, I know it's bullshit but at the same time I can't get the idea that it just may be true out of my head. I don't know if maybe I took OCD medication this would help suppress my thoughts, or whether it's more natural to feel this way.

 So do any of you have any advice for me to take my 99% free to 100%?

[pedricero matao]

Well hi there, i suppose it's been said a couple of times before but...
In first place, IMHO the idea of god has no sense... you (not "you", but someone who believes in a personal god) are putting some concepts you take from the physical universe you know and putting them in a context that is totally different. For example, those creationists that say "yeah the evolutionist who think that before universe there was nothing and then an explosion" that is... as spacetime is ligated, when there's no space, there's no time. Also it is doubted that time is a real variable (not in the mathematical sense), just a physicochemical mechanism in our brains. Therefore it makes no sense asking what was before the Big Bang because time doesn't exist in any other context that is not our universe with our physical laws. Same with an even blurrier concept (god)

Don't know if i explained myself properly.

And, admitting all that stories about burning in hell and all that: why should one adhere to a god who is such a tyrant that if you don't worship him/her he punishes you? and a got that makes things like this happen in his/her name, is a reeal motherf*cker! (and a hater)

What do you think?

[liveyoungdiefast]

All makes sense. I suppose I just wish I could have a 'born again secular humanist' experience instead of always standing on the edge.

[pedricero matao]

Well, it seems to me that questionin things is good. If anyone ever questioned the way energy is emitted/absorbed, we wouldn't be having this "conversation".

Plus i don't think one could have an "atheist enlightment" or something like that.... such things should emerge from reason in my opinion

[GodlessInND]

I'm not a doctor, but if you've been medically diagnosed (not self diagnosed) with OCD, this could be part of it, and medication and/or psychotherapy might help.  You're certainly not alone among atheists/freethinkers/humanists in thinking about the what-ifs.  That's what we do:  think through various scenarios, apply logic and rational thought, until we form our own conclusions.  Still, some of us may wonder, "what if I'm wrong?"  Some of us will always wonder that, will always accept that really anything is possible.

Since your thoughts are causing you so much unhappiness, my advice to you is to seek help from someone with experience diagnosing and treating OCD.  If it isn't OCD, you may still benefit from counseling, or simply talking with trusted friends.  You also have this forum and others like it.

[pedricero matao]

That's what we do: think through various scenarios, apply logic and rational thought, until we form our own conclusions. Still, some of us may wonder, "what if I'm wrong?"

That's it.
For the question "what if i'm wrong?", consider this:
Ok, you're wrong and your'e all gonna be judged. You live doing whatever you think is true and good, having been a nice dude. If even so god decides to punish you for not having adored him... well i think we could state that god is a bastard then, and why should you adore him. It's like submitting to a bully and even if you haven't done anything wrong.

[liveyoungdiefast]

For those who wanted clarification, I am medically diagnosed. As a permanent personality disorder, not an anxiety disorder (It didn't come from stress in my life). Me being the non-religious person I am, I have such an amazing fascination with human nature in general I really never wanted any medication because I believe in neuro-diversity, an idea that there isn't one correct model for a healthy human brain.

[GodlessInND]

...I believe in neuro-diversity, an idea that there isn't one correct model for a healthy human brain.

I love that term, neuro-diversity!  I've never heard it used before, though I'm familiar with the idea.  It parallels the idea of physical "disability" as diversity, which I first heard about when I worked with people who had muscular dystrophy.  A few were opposed to efforts to "cure" muscular dystrophy, as they didn't consider it a "disease," rather a physical trait.  Trying to cure it would be like trying to "cure" (or eliminate) blue eyes.  They took offense to the idea that the world should be rid of the disease and, by extension, people like them.

From this perspective, your constant what-if thoughts are simply a trait of yours, and since they don't hurt you or anyone else, there's no reason to consider "treatment" of any kind.  Though, I still suggest that if they make you very unhappy, you shouldn't be afraid to ask for help.

Good luck to you!

[G.ENIGMA]

That's what we do: think through various scenarios, apply logic and rational thought, until we form our own conclusions. Still, some of us may wonder, "what if I'm wrong?"

That's it.
For the question "what if i'm wrong?", consider this:
Ok, you're wrong and your'e all gonna be judged. You live doing whatever you think is true and good, having been a nice dude. If even so god decides to punish you for not having adored him... well i think we could state that god is a bastard then, and why should you adore him. It's like submitting to a bully and even if you haven't done anything wrong.

Agreed...

If your wrong your in very good company because the bible commandments (the bible that was not written by god but instead written by people who believed in a god some other people said exists :hail:  everything will be ok does not work because that just means you can do any bad thing you want, but no worries, just say sorry and you will be let in.

Beating yourself up  with a "what if" is literally a waste of time ... however, that said I understand how you feel because I like straight lines as well.