Overheard at coffee this morning...

[rlrose328]

Most of you know I have coffee with other moms from my son's charter school on Mondays... and ALL of the other moms are devout, mostly fundie Christians.

At coffee this morning, one of my fellow moms, a devout Christian who "sees" Jesus, said:

"My husband got a job and he wasn't the most qualified, so I was talking to his boss and asked him why he  chose my husband.  He said he had a whole stack of applications but he came to my husband's and just felt he had to hire him.  He told my husband at his interview he'd probably interview a few more people, but he said he just didn't... he threw away all the other applications.  I asked him why and he said, 'I saw on his resume that he was an assistant pastor and I knew he was a man of God, so I knew he was the right person for the job even though he wasn't nearly as qualified.'"

I didn't say anything but I did sit there in a slow burn.  So... because he's a good Christian, he got the job even though he wasn't nearly as qualified???  That sounds like discrimination to me.  Ugh.

[curiosityandthecat]

Yeah, 'cause I want one of these guys on my team.



 

[rlrose328]

What I kept thinking is... what if my husband went for a job and because some doof puts on his resume that he's a pastor and my husband, a highly qualified programmer, didn't... he'd be passed over just because he's not a supersitition worshipping Christian?  That's wrong.  I managed to keep my mouth shut and talked to another gal about our kids, the only thing I have in common with these ladies, but I was still burning about it after I left the coffee shop.

I know, I should just not go because every week, one of them says something similarly insane, but if I don't socialize with them, I'd have no one to socialize with at all, KWIM?  

[Will]

It absolutely is discrimination and that individual should be sued immediately.

[Nazzer]

I agree. You have the grounds to sue, so do it.

Then refuse the job.

[Ihateyoumike]

It absolutely is discrimination and that individual should be sued immediately.

100% agree with this. This discrimination is just as bad as any other, and should not occur.

[Whitney]

Do you know what sucks most about that: even if you were applying for a job and knew you were passed over for an under-qualified person just because of religion, you wouldn't be able to prove it in court unless the company put the reason in writing.

[Will]

Do you know what sucks most about that: even if you were applying for a job and knew you were passed over for an under-qualified person just because of religion, you wouldn't be able to prove it in court unless the company put the reason in writing.

Overhearing it in conversation would be hearsay?

[Whitney]

Do you know what sucks most about that: even if you were applying for a job and knew you were passed over for an under-qualified person just because of religion, you wouldn't be able to prove it in court unless the company put the reason in writing.

Overhearing it in conversation would be hearsay?

Yes.  Even if the person who had the conversation was willing to testify, it would be one person's word against another.  You could go to court but would be unlikely to win.  One other option is to have people who work at the company testify about their illegal hiring practices; but most would either not know about it or be unwilling to risk their jobs.

[rlrose328]

I agree. You have the grounds to sue, so do it.

Then refuse the job.

It's not me or my husband, it's a gal I have coffee with occasionally.  And she's perfectly happy to know that her husband's faith got him the job.  She and the gal she was talking to were both:  "Praise Jesus, thank you God."

Do you know what sucks most about that: even if you were applying for a job and knew you were passed over for an under-qualified person just because of religion, you wouldn't be able to prove it in court unless the company put the reason in writing.

Yup, that's exactly what Joe said when I told him.  Sure, I could figure out the company and contact someone about it, but they'd just deny it, and I'd end up pissing off most of the moms whose friendship I value (even if I do have to periodically listen to their religious nonsense).  

I won't even bother telling you all about the conversations I had with a few of them about evolution and bible accuracy last weekend when we went away on a scrapbooking retreat... it's baffling how these women even function at times.

[Miss Anthrope]

Do you know what sucks most about that: even if you were applying for a job and knew you were passed over for an under-qualified person just because of religion, you wouldn't be able to prove it in court unless the company put the reason in writing.

Overhearing it in conversation would be hearsay?

Yes.  Even if the person who had the conversation was willing to testify, it would be one person's word against another.  You could go to court but would be unlikely to win.  One other option is to have people who work at the company testify about their illegal hiring practices; but most would either not know about it or be unwilling to risk their jobs.

Yeah, without more evidence it would be a very hard case to win.

It's frightening, really, any type of discrimination which allows a less qualified person to be hired over plenty of highly qualified applicants. Imagine in the case of a medical position: your surgeon being hired simply becasue he had more "faith" than others; cuz you know, we all want to put our lives in the hands of someone who puts faith above science.

What also bugs me about the story is that many Christians would probably use it as an example of a "miracle" or some other kind of validation of their religion.
Like, "Oh, the employer could just feel the presence of God on that application. Do you see how God works?" Similar to how many of them will use ANY positive thing that happens to them as a "confirmation".

[Mister Joy]

Ideally, the religious beliefs of an interviewee should be no concern of the interviewer. Maybe then it's justified, in this circumstance, to hold the philosophy, ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies. The same cards are in our hands as well, we just have to take advantage of their gullibility a little. I wouldn't anticipate much difficulty in pretending to be religious. Might even be quite fun: you could shovel tons of scathing ironic humour straight into their faces and they'd never notice. The particularly dense fundies would probably agree with every word you say and mark you as a saint. Having said that, I've never tried. It might get boring after a while.

[VanReal]

You know, I can see how this happens.  I found out about a year ago that one of the main reasons I was hired on with the company I work for now was because I had been in the Army.   It was an entry level position so it's not like there was much necessity for exact qualifications, but the two men that were hiring thought that the fact that I had been in the Army meant I would have a good work ethic.  It happens to be true but that did not come from the Army, I actually learned how to shirk off duties and hide from doing any work in the Army, and gees I got ot in 1995! (Really dating myself.)

Just goes to show that people often hire for reasons far from sheer qualifications.  On the flip side, if I were hiring for my company (if I owned my own) I would probably shy away from the person that had "minister" on his/her resume.  May not be right, but I could find other reasons that they would not be a good fit even if I wasn't doing it consciously.

Just as an FYI - a tip off to the DOL works better than a direct lawsuit.  Depending on the company the DOL likes to ruffle feathers.  I've answered and had to document several DOL investigations where I work.

[rlrose328]

What also bugs me about the story is that many Christians would probably use it as an example of a "miracle" or some other kind of validation of their religion.
Like, "Oh, the employer could just feel the presence of God on that application. Do you see how God works?" Similar to how many of them will use ANY positive thing that happens to them as a "confirmation".

That is EXACTLY what they were saying!!!!  Her husband had been out of work for a few years (he's in construction) and had been doing the odd job here and there.  Their power had been turned off a few times and god came through for them, getting it turned back on (their pastor paid the bill both times).  He did most of the work when we installed our new modular building at the school for two new grades this year.  From all reports, he's quite good... but god got him the job, obviously.  

Yes, it reaffirmed the faith of all at the table... except me.  I found it disgusting.

[rlrose328]

Ideally, the religious beliefs of an interviewee should be no concern of the interviewer. Maybe then it's justified, in this circumstance, to hold the philosophy, ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies. The same cards are in our hands as well, we just have to take advantage of their gullibility a little. I wouldn't anticipate much difficulty in pretending to be religious. Might even be quite fun: you could shovel tons of scathing ironic humour straight into their faces and they'd never notice. The particularly dense fundies would probably agree with every word you say and mark you as a saint. Having said that, I've never tried. It might get boring after a while.

My husband, like many of you, is an "ordained minister" in one of the online "churches."  He said he might as well add "ordained minister" to his resume, just in case.