A star in the sky

[miken277]

re: what Maitreya has said.  Maitreya, between 1977 and 1992 lived in the Brick Lane area of London and regularly gave talks there.  A documentary was made about him, and the community, and was never broadcast.  He now lives in the Hindu temples in the London area, working with the Swamis there.  The teachings on the website are transcribed from those talks, transcribed into english, and put on the website.

[miken277]

re: what Maitreya has said. Maitreya, between 1977 and 1992 lived in the Brick Lane area of London and regularly gave talks there. A documentary was made about him, and the community, and was never broadcast. He now lives in the Hindu temples in the London area, working with the Swamis there. The teachings on the website are transcribed from those talks, transcribed into english, and put on the website.

[wheels5894]

One more thing:  I'm sorry if I tend to announce this stuff without adequate proof:  the reason I post on these forums is that, in my experience, atheists are occasionally open minded where this type of thing is concerned.  The focus in esotericism is not on belief.  It is on energy.  For the Masters, there is really no need for the suspension of disbelief, for the suspension of logic.  They experience the world in a moment to moment way as the interplay of tremendous energies which we are not yet aware of.  The truths that have made their way into the world's traditions, and also our scientific canon are only as true as our faculties are accurate.  They are not, really.  The role of humanity is to act as the "mind of god", to adapt the Plan to everyday reality, to relate life As It Is to life on this level of perception, to everyday reality.  To me it is not an issue of proof first, it is an issue of experiment first.  You cannot arrive at proof unless you experiment.  The result of the experiments of countless people over the ages (with service, with mediation) is that they came to extraordinary realizations that were not easily communicable in words (Eg. krishnamurti).  The fact that other people cannot instantaneously come to the same level of realization as Krishnamurti or a Master does not prove those levels of awareness do not exist, they prove that those people have not yet done the work to get there.  Many people think that the concrete mind is the most advanced type of awareness in the universe.  It is not.  More broadly, people in general think that the way they look at things is not only real, but the only real reality.  Doubly not true.

Mike, what you say is all very well but for the fact that we could do with a bit more information and a bit more help.i asked you

Hey, Mike, how do we know what Maitreya says? Oh, and how do we know this is really from such a person?

and you have just ignored my question for whatever reason to tell us about experimentation. So let's start there.

Experimentation
All sorts of things have been the subject of experimentation over the years. One of the great things about this is that an individual does not have to repeat these experiments but can use the results to continue the work. Thus if you get ill, a doctor will not tell you to experiment with moulds until you find something to make you better, he prescribes the correct drug to do this for you. If I wanted to do some work on engines for your car, you would not have to work out how to make a combusion engine but could work from a current design.

So, why not tell us about the results of experiments you have done thus cutting the corner for us?

How do we know there are such beings
So far you have only asserted the existence of these mystical beings without any suggest of evidence at all. Where is your evidence and don't say 'experiment' as that is not evidence and neither is your own experience. You  might indicate how you know the names of these beings and the information about them being humans once but living eternally.

the words of Maltreya
From where do these words come, precisely? I mean what was the chain that brought to words to the page.


I hope you can tackle these important questions. On an atheist forum you must expect to have to provide evidence as people are  not going to just take the word of someone we don't even know however honest they sound.

[miken277]

I tried to reply about where the words come from, but for some reason it wouldn't show up.  The words come from someone who attended one of Maitreya's public lectures, between 1977 and 1992, in the Brick Lane area of London.  They were translated into English and given to Share.  I don't know a great deal of information about the individual who took them down, but I presume he wants to remain anonymous.  

As far as empirical evidence that Maitreya exists, is an actual person, there are plenty of people who have seen him, talked to him, and know he exists, but have been asked not to talk directly to the media.  This includes heads of state from around the world (a press conference was given some years back, at which, among other people, the King of Jordan was present.  The idea for the West Bank was originally given by Maitreya.  The failure of the peace process there, though, is our fault).  The reason they have been asked not to talk to the media is that it would be in an infringement of free will for people of great renown to attest to his presence in the world.  People would believe the information because Princess Di believes it, or Nelson Mandela believes it.  After Maitreya's initial emergence, gradually they will come forward.  This proof is just not available to you all, personally.  You could go to London and try to find Him, if you were so inclined.  You might be given an experience, but I very much doubt that Maitreya would simply tap you on the shoulder and say "here I am".  It does not work that way.  The Masters cannot be manipulated.  They cannot give us proof on a platter, if it would infringe free will.  If the concept of sharing does not stand on its own, as a hypothesis, the rest is useless.  

On the level of phenomena and miracles, there is proof which you can personally experience, and which have been studied.  There are miracles around the world, crosses of light, circles of light, crop circles, increasing UFO sightings, all of which you can examine by going to the website.  

http://www.share-international.org/back ... i_main.htm

The crosses of light, for example, which just "appear" in the glass of windows around the world cannot be explained simply through natural alterations to the glass.  The actual index of refraction would have to have been changed.  The Masters can do it, and this is probably how they did it.  But if you were going to try to reproduce this miracle, by creating a pane of frosted glass with an index of refraction of 1.561, not more, not less, it is doubtful you could do it.   Check out the following article, which tells about a group of graduate students at the university of Delft who examined the glass.
 
http://www.share-international.org/ARCH ... _ihcro.htm      

At:  http://www.asdlib.org/onlineArticles/el ... s/Glass(RI)PFaculty.pdf
it shows that a fairly wide sampling of different types of glass would only range as high as 1.51.  Window glass is usually 1.49, consistently from batch to batch.   The patterns appeared suddenly, they were not there one day, and then they were there.

I have personally examined these, and another phenomena called patterns of light, and can attest to the fact that they actually exist.  The patterns of light (exes and crosses on the sides of buildings), which come from reflected light from an opposite building, do not happen ordinarily.  Often one pane will have a pattern, and the other will not.  I have looked at one of these myself, and it is clear that the pane has been very subtly bent inwards, to focus the light--seemingly slightly melted.  The focus has to be precise to correctly display the pattern, and the focal length changes depending on the circumstances and the buildings involved.  Obviously, no small feat for a hoaxer--and these happen on a grand scale, as you can see on the website, and again just appeared suddenly.

As far as my own personal experience goes, all I can say is that I experience the information to be true, although I don't try to foist my experience on others as "gospel truth".  It is not.  I am operating on faith, on the assumption of the truth of this information.  I have enough information, from my own experiences, to determine that it is true.  What convinced me, more than anything else were the thousands of letters that have been written to Share of miraculous experiences people have had with a familiar or thoughtform of Maitreya (the Masters often use this device to contact people: a "familiar" that can appear and disappear).  I have had a couple of these experiences, and so have my colleagues.  You can believe these stories, or not.  That is the point:  free will.  I do not think, either, that the Masters will go out of their way to prove their divinity beyond all doubt.  People, I think, will be given an opportunity to doubt to their hearts content, because freedom, to the Masters, is sacrosanct.  They are not demi-gods either, over and above the divinity of every human being.  They have, through the process of evolution, fully expressed the divinity that is within all of us.
--Mike

[Whitney]

1.  The problem of overpopulation will be solved by education and redistribution.  It has been reasonably well established that as you increase education and standard of living, the birth rate goes down.  There are multiple other factors which support my argument:  as you enhance education and standard of living, women gain power and responsibility, and control over reproduction.  Eventually there will be far fewer people on this planet.  It is our choice whether we want to have this happen through education and right relationships, or a nuclear cataclysm.  In the first case, humanity will survive.  In the second, it will not.

Although studies have shown that people in developed countries tend to have less children, their populations are still rising at an alarming rate.  So, I am not convinced that education and increased standard of living would be a viable solution.  Not to mention that humanity will probably be extinct well before we could implement a good educational system on such a large scale.  It's a bandage, not a cure.

Here's what redistributing food would do.  Those populations which already had plenty of food with quit growing so much.  The populations that didn't have enough food will see a dramatic increase in population until there are so many that they don't quite have enough food again.  Yet again, it's a bandage, not a cure.

If we want to save the world, we're going to have to quit pretending like our culture is something worth saving and look towards new options for humanity.  Or as Daniel Quinn (a great environmental philosopher novelist) would say; we have to move beyond civilization.

[miken277]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_decline

It exists.  There are a number of factors which play into it, but you can't simply say that it is all due to famine, war, or other adverse conditions.  Else, why would the Netherlands, or Iceland be approaching decline, and Japan already in it?  Also, take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ferti ... ld_map.PNG
The orange, purple and red bits, the ones with the highest birthrates, also *happen* to be the poorest nations on the planet.  Coincidence?  Nope.  I also find it interesting that there is a high correspondence between the presence of non-totalitarian socialism and the plummeting of birth rates.

Also, we are not just talking about redistributing food.  We are talking about redistributing wealth and infrastructure, raw resources of all kinds.  Aid agencies, including the UN are well aware of the fact that if you flood a local economy with cheap grain, nothing is solved.  You have to provide long term assistance in every area.  Right now we are not able to even provide emergency assistance to the starving, malnourished, or Aids ridden, because governments do not think it is important.  We provide token assistance, but it does not last.  It is based on wishful thinking and on a fitful altruism, not on common sense or sound priorities.  It makes no sense to spend billions on counterterrorism efforts in Somalia, when the terrorism there is directly caused by poverty, and the lack of infrastructure.  

I agree that we can't save our culture.  It is basically dead.  My information is that the Masters are here to inspire us to build something better.  The alternative is, according to this information, complete destruction of all life on the planet.    
--Mike

[Faithless]

I tried to reply about where the words come from, but for some reason it wouldn't show up. The words come from someone who attended one of Maitreya's public lectures, between 1977 and 1992, in the Brick Lane area of London. They were translated into English and given to Share. I don't know a great deal of information about the individual who took them down, but I presume he wants to remain anonymous.

As far as empirical evidence that Maitreya exists, is an actual person, there are plenty of people who have seen him, talked to him, and know he exists, but have been asked not to talk directly to the media. This includes heads of state from around the world (a press conference was given some years back, at which, among other people, the King of Jordan was present. The idea for the West Bank was originally given by Maitreya. The failure of the peace process there, though, is our fault). The reason they have been asked not to talk to the media is that it would be in an infringement of free will for people of great renown to attest to his presence in the world. People would believe the information because Princess Di believes it, or Nelson Mandela believes it. After Maitreya's initial emergence, gradually they will come forward. This proof is just not available to you all, personally. You could go to London and try to find Him, if you were so inclined. You might be given an experience, but I very much doubt that Maitreya would simply tap you on the shoulder and say "here I am". It does not work that way. The Masters cannot be manipulated. They cannot give us proof on a platter, if it would infringe free will. If the concept of sharing does not stand on its own, as a hypothesis, the rest is useless.

On the level of phenomena and miracles, there is proof which you can personally experience, and which have been studied. There are miracles around the world, crosses of light, circles of light, crop circles, increasing UFO sightings, all of which you can examine by going to the website.

http://www.share-international.org/back ... i_main.htm

The crosses of light, for example, which just "appear" in the glass of windows around the world cannot be explained simply through natural alterations to the glass. The actual index of refraction would have to have been changed. The Masters can do it, and this is probably how they did it. But if you were going to try to reproduce this miracle, by creating a pane of frosted glass with an index of refraction of 1.561, not more, not less, it is doubtful you could do it. Check out the following article, which tells about a group of graduate students at the university of Delft who examined the glass.

http://www.share-international.org/ARCH ... _ihcro.htm

At: http://www.asdlib.org/onlineArticles/el ... s/Glass(RI)PFaculty.pdf
it shows that a fairly wide sampling of different types of glass would only range as high as 1.51. Window glass is usually 1.49, consistently from batch to batch. The patterns appeared suddenly, they were not there one day, and then they were there.

I have personally examined these, and another phenomena called patterns of light, and can attest to the fact that they actually exist. The patterns of light (exes and crosses on the sides of buildings), which come from reflected light from an opposite building, do not happen ordinarily. Often one pane will have a pattern, and the other will not. I have looked at one of these myself, and it is clear that the pane has been very subtly bent inwards, to focus the light--seemingly slightly melted. The focus has to be precise to correctly display the pattern, and the focal length changes depending on the circumstances and the buildings involved. Obviously, no small feat for a hoaxer--and these happen on a grand scale, as you can see on the website, and again just appeared suddenly.

--Mike

Ummm, yeah.  You come to an atheist website and ask us to look at another website that lists miracles, UFO sightings, crop circles (crop circles have been debunked, by the way, by the actual perpetrators of said crop circles, thus disqualifying them from being recognized as a miracle) and crosses of light, and declare that is proof that some once-human-but-now-evolved-into-a-demi-god dude is coming to give a TV interview and solve all our problems?  Are you serious?

Again, again, again, where is your proof?  Empirical, testable proof.  No websites, tall tales, or words that might or might not have been heard by the King of Jordan between 1977 and 1992 by someone he did or did not know was a Master named Maitreya.  Real, live proof.  Put up or shut up.