2012: End of Christianity?

Stoicheion · November 11, 2008, 03:17:17 PM

Just like in other decades, Christians think that the return of Christ is coming soon and the end of the world is upon us. But with 2012 coming up it is even more strongly believed, with the support of many other belliefs to back it up. Things like the Mayan calendar, Nostradamus, and misc prophecies.

So what do you predict will happen in 2012 when the world DOESN'T end. Would it be a significant loss to Christianity and other spiritual "end of days" beliefs?

Christianity would most likely go on like it has for the past few hundred years saying "Wait for it... wait for it... NOW!....maybeeee... NOW!...wait for iiit... NOW!" but what are the chances of people deconverting when they realize that nothing is going to happen? Aren't they going to feel silly?

karadan · November 11, 2008, 04:01:42 PM

Quote from: "Stoicheion"Just like in other decades, Christians think that the return of Christ is coming soon and the end of the world is upon us. But with 2012 coming up it is even more strongly believed, with the support of many other belliefs to back it up. Things like the Mayan calendar, Nostradamus, and misc prophecies.

So what do you predict will happen in 2012 when the world DOESN'T end. Would it be a significant loss to Christianity and other spiritual "end of days" beliefs?

Christianity would most likely go on like it has for the past few hundred years saying "Wait for it... wait for it... NOW!....maybeeee... NOW!...wait for iiit... NOW!" but what are the chances of people deconverting when they realize that nothing is going to happen? Aren't they going to feel silly?

It hasn't stopped them feeling silly in the past... I'm sure the world was supposed to have ended dozens of times during my life and religion seems to be just as rampant today.

I've heard snippets about 2012 all over the net but don't really know what it is about. Which religions/cults/conspiracy theorists believe the world is going to end and why? Or is it just the same old 'big calamity' scenario?

Kyuuketsuki · November 11, 2008, 04:47:28 PM

Quote from: "Stoicheion"Christianity would most likely go on like it has for the past few hundred years saying "Wait for it... wait for it... NOW!....maybeeee... NOW!...wait for iiit... NOW!" but what are the chances of people deconverting when they realize that nothing is going to happen? Aren't they going to feel silly?

Probably not, they'll just slide it quietly under the carpet like a hundred other such daft predictions that have already failed.

Kyu

PipeBox · November 11, 2008, 07:22:06 PM

Quote from: "karadan"It hasn't stopped them feeling silly in the past... I'm sure the world was supposed to have ended dozens of times during my life and religion seems to be just as rampant today.

I've heard snippets about 2012 all over the net but don't really know what it is about. Which religions/cults/conspiracy theorists believe the world is going to end and why? Or is it just the same old 'big calamity' scenario?

I know there's the end of the Mayan Calendar, but that isn't impressive (They handled everything with massive cycles. They laid out three of these massive cycles which were essentially copies of each other, much as we have the same 12 calendar months in a year. Being that these three gave them millennia to work with, I'm pretty sure they decided "If we're still around, well add more cycles." Using the Mayan Calendar as an endorsement for the end times is like going back to 1992 and seeing that a windows 3.1 clock/calendar can't be set to anything 2000 and beyond, and claiming that's what we believed as a race).

There's the always-present Biblical end times, because we're sinning more than ever before (it can't get much worse than this, AMIRITE?).

There's a Catholic prophecy laid down by an early pope that goes so far as to list how many popes there will be and a minor detail of each. For the late Pope John Paul II, it was that he'd be a lion, and that was his coat of arms, or something like that. Pope Benedict is the second to last one according to the prophecy, and the Pope that comes after him, explicitly named Peter, will see the end of the world.

There's the Nostradamus stuff, but it's most of his stuff is fascinatingly ambiguous, and will be read however the reader desires, so no surprise there.

And that's about all I know of it. I'll see you in 2013, and no, this won't even phase religion at large, trust me.

Lila · November 11, 2008, 07:52:31 PM

Quote from: "PipeBox"There's the always-present Biblical end times, because we're sinning more than ever before (it can't get much worse than this, AMIRITE?).

quote]

I find it hilarious that they think we are WORSE now. Humanity's always been as full of shit as it is now. Holocaust? Large-scale murder of God's chosen?! Wouldn't that kick-start the end times more than people having premarital sex?

curiosityandthecat · November 11, 2008, 09:03:33 PM

Quote from: "Stoicheion"Aren't they going to feel silly?

Silly? These people...

...can be made to feel silly over poor scheduling skills? Methinks not.

MariaEvri · November 12, 2008, 02:25:43 PM

Quote from: "Stoicheion"So what do you predict will happen in 2012 when the world DOESN'T end. Would it be a significant loss to Christianity and other spiritual "end of days" beliefs?

I think it will happen the same think that happened at january 2001 00:05
The world will shrug say "oh well" and go look for other "doomsday" "prophecies"

PipeBox · November 12, 2008, 11:16:17 PM

Lila, there's a season for everything except pre-marital sex.

Maria, I've always wondered what timezone the end of the world would fall in. You know, because earth ending disasters always come promptly on the first of the month, on the hour. But what timezone, I've always wondered. 12:00 AM in Japan would really mess up my last day, I'd hardly get any of it! And no matter what time you pick, the folks nearest the dateline, on the west side of it, always get more earth time to play with! Hardly fair for the rest of us.

I say we petition all the deities to destroy earth an hour at a time so we all get the same amount of daylight. Fair is fair. :lol:

karakara · November 15, 2008, 03:02:57 PM

My own faith makes no such apocalyptic prediction.. assorted predictions based upon celestial alignments throughout history have never panned out. I wouldn't go spending your 401Ks (if you have much left after our bank meltdown..) or your kids' college funds.. Jan. 1, 2013 will come as a shock to many people. I place zero stock in any Mayan prediction, this from the culture that believed the panacea for everything was ripping the still-beating hearts out of as many 'sacrifices' as they could conquer and kill. Their belief-system was morally untenable.

Again, the 2012 hysteria which we'll see from many Christian sects is entirely consistent with the figure upon which the faith.. or many 'faiths' (something like 20,000 Christian sects around the world at last count) was based... whether an historical figure or not, 'Jesus' was the leader of by what we'd define today as a 'Apocalyptic Cult', first and foremost. Now, there are many good teachings attributed to him -- most concepts of which I believe the Greek writers of the New Testament were familiar with as passed down from Buddhism and had made their way West over the centuries..

Tom62 · November 15, 2008, 08:01:04 PM

Good point, karakara! BTW there is a theory that Jesus didn't die on the cross, but moved to India and started to teach there. That might explain the link with Buddhism.

karakara · November 15, 2008, 08:38:56 PM

Quote from: "Tom62"Good point, karakara! BTW there is a theory that Jesus didn't die on the cross, but moved to India and started to teach there. That might explain the link with Buddhism.

Sat Sri Akaal Friend,

I don't see how it can even be a 'theory' when the timeline, even by the wildest stretch, cannot support even the most remote possibility of this hypothesis, unless 'Jesus' was more 'Doctor Who', a time traveler.

Buddhism was founded by a truly historical figure, Siddhartha Gautama, who lived in the 6th Century BC.. several hundred years before Jesus/Yeshua/Nazarine/Christ's time on earth. Buddhism was a re-working of the Vedic teachings, as in, inspired by Upanishads, which spawned Hinduism. Buddhism, although ostensibly not believing in 'God', has as it's goal 'Nirvana', which is basically union with, or 'becoming' God.. achieving God Consciousness. Vedic, Buddhist, and other Dharmic philosophies traveled east and west, and there is no evidence that Indian development of religions were influenced in any way by middle eastern thought until, oddly enough, my own religion, Sikhism, some 500 odd years ago.

Sat Nam

Sat Nam.

Tom62 · November 16, 2008, 05:57:29 PM

Quote from: "karakara"Sat Sri Akaal Friend,

I don't see how it can even be a 'theory' when the timeline, even by the wildest stretch, cannot support even the most remote possibility of this hypothesis, unless 'Jesus' was more 'Doctor Who', a time traveler.

Bole So Nihaal, Sat Sri Akaal Friend (I hope that I spelled it right),

It is indeed a theory that was developed by the nineteenth century Russian adventurer Nicolai Notovitch and the German scholar Holga Kersten. Some people still take it very serious (mainly New Agers), but for me it is another myth that cannot be proven.

- Tom

karakara · November 16, 2008, 06:41:08 PM

Quote from: "Tom62"
Quote from: "karakara"Sat Sri Akaal Friend,

I don't see how it can even be a 'theory' when the timeline, even by the wildest stretch, cannot support even the most remote possibility of this hypothesis, unless 'Jesus' was more 'Doctor Who', a time traveler.

Bole So Nihaal, Sat Sri Akaal Friend (I hope that I spelled it right),

It is indeed a theory that was developed by the nineteenth century Russian adventurer Nicolai Notovitch and the German scholar Holga Kersten. Some people still take it very serious (mainly New Agers), but for me it is another myth that cannot be proven.

- Tom

LOL, you did indeed spell it correctly, thank you for the respect that this shows!

I'll look into it. I still say, Christ would have had to have been a time traveler for the theory to have any merit.. but if he could walk on water, bring Lazarus back to life, and perform all of those 'miracles', hell, what's a little time travel??

Waheguru

Titan · November 17, 2008, 10:33:00 PM

I'll answer this when you tell me where the Bible actually says that the world will come to an end in 2012. The Bible tell Christians that none of us know the date or the time. Basically whenever someone says "It's going to be today" we can be absolutely sure it isn't going to be on that day.

Jolly Sapper · November 17, 2008, 11:11:22 PM

Quote from: "Titan"I'll answer this when you tell me where the Bible actually says that the world will come to an end in 2012. The Bible tell Christians that none of us know the date or the time. Basically whenever someone says "It's going to be today" we can be absolutely sure it isn't going to be on that day.

Its not the bible, it a South American religion, I think Aztec based on their calendar. Something to do with everything going topsy turvey and all of our technology turning on us.

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2012: End of Christianity?