2012: End of Christianity?

[curiosityandthecat]

Its not the bible, it a South American religion, I think Aztec based on their calendar.  Something to do with everything going topsy turvey and all of our technology turning on us.

I think now would be a good time to buy stock in SkyNet and warn Sarah Connor.

[Stoicheion]

I came up with this post when i held in mind a conversation i had with an evangelical christian a few weeks ago. She kept saying that everything in Revelations was happening now. So perhaps not 2012 but within our lifetimes like a lot of previous generations thought.  

[Sophus]

I say with confidence that the majority of Christians, or the religious for that matter, do not believe the world will actually end in 2012.

[Titan]

Stoicheion, that is complex doctrinal stuff. Some people believe that there is a new millennium that is set up while we are still on this world (and many believe that it has already been established) therefore we are living in the end times. Other people believe there will be 7 years of judgment followed by the millennium.

Its not the bible, it a South American religion, I think Aztec based on their calendar. Something to do with everything going topsy turvey and all of our technology turning on us.

Yeah, it was based on the date their massive calendar ended on. I was responding to this quote:

There's the always-present Biblical end times, because we're sinning more than ever before (it can't get much worse than this, AMIRITE?).

There's a Catholic prophecy laid down by an early pope that goes so far as to list how many popes there will be and a minor detail of each. For the late Pope John Paul II, it was that he'd be a lion, and that was his coat of arms, or something like that. Pope Benedict is the second to last one according to the prophecy, and the Pope that comes after him, explicitly named Peter, will see the end of the world.

There's the Nostradamus stuff, but it's most of his stuff is fascinatingly ambiguous, and will be read however the reader desires, so no surprise there.

And that's about all I know of it. I'll see you in 2013, and no, this won't even phase religion at large, trust me.

[Stoicheion]

Stoicheion, that is complex doctrinal stuff. Some people believe that there is a new millennium that is set up while we are still on this world (and many believe that it has already been established) therefore we are living in the end times. Other people believe there will be 7 years of judgment followed by the millennium.

Can you explain this Titan? I'm a bit confused with the concept of this "new millenium" . I haven't ever heard of that before.

[Titan]

Revelations is literally the hardest book of the Bible for Christians to get their heads around and almost every Christian you meet will have a different view on the "end times."

The two theories I am referring to here are postmillennialism and premillennialism.

Postmillennialists argue that the judgment of the world (7 years, 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, antichrist, all that fun stuff) occur after the millennium that is spoken of in Revelations 20. Some believe that the millennium is a literal  1000 years others believe that it is more along the line of thousands of years. What they agree on is that the millennium will occur or is occurring prior to the time of tribulation, or Christ's second coming. They believe that this period of Christian prosperity predates all the bad stuff that is going to happen.

Premillennialists believe the reverse. They believe that Christ will come back and after the seven years he will set up a kingdom that will last 1000 years (or around that much time) but will only be temporary.

There are actually many things about Christianity that you may not know. For instance, did you know that Heaven isn't the end reward for Christians, despite what kids are told (for simplicity sake really) and what many adults believe it is actually only a temporary place.

[PipeBox]

Revelations is literally the hardest book of the Bible for Christians to get their heads around and almost every Christian you meet will have a different view on the "end times."

The two theories I am referring to here are postmillennialism and premillennialism.

Postmillennialists argue that the judgment of the world (7 years, 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, antichrist, all that fun stuff) occur after the millennium that is spoken of in Revelations 20. Some believe that the millennium is a literal  1000 years others believe that it is more along the line of thousands of years. What they agree on is that the millennium will occur or is occurring prior to the time of tribulation, or Christ's second coming. They believe that this period of Christian prosperity predates all the bad stuff that is going to happen.

Premillennialists believe the reverse. They believe that Christ will come back and after the seven years he will set up a kingdom that will last 1000 years (or around that much time) but will only be temporary.

There are actually many things about Christianity that you may not know. For instance, did you know that Heaven isn't the end reward for Christians, despite what kids are told (for simplicity sake really) and what many adults believe it is actually only a temporary place.

Right, New Jerusalem.  Rev was always my favorite book.  Though it is a bit cryptic, it's also the most epic and entertaining to read.  Most of the rest of the New Testament (brace for criticism) always felt a little redundant.  The same messages repeated umpteen times in slightly different ways.  Arguably the stuff that's repeated is of greater importance, but I was always more of a reveler in the power of almighty God.  My favorite verse is Rev 1:8, which says something to the extent of "I am the Alpha and Omega, sayeth the Lord, that which Was, which Is, and which is forever to come, the Almighty."  NKJ, of course.   It's a much more potent wording of power than the poetic "I Am."  

Also, just as a reference, I never dared to call myself pre or postmillennialist.  No pretrip or postrip or rapture shennanigans.  No guesses as when the world would end.  I just read the thing and always said it'd happen how it was supposed to happen when it happened.  And it always amazed me when my friends would tell me they were sure the end time were near.  I'd tell them of astronomical happenings which fascinated me, expected return times for long period comets or the Sol System around the Milky, and such stunning expanses of time would be discarded instantly because it would all never come to pass.  Jesus was coming back tomorrow.   I'd ask how they could know the return would happen before the passage of 50,000 or 100,000 years, as people in the year 500 were probably sure it was going to happen before the year 1000, but I always got the reply that they just knew.  Don't get me wrong, I understand that if the end is an accepted, guaranteed point in time, then the longer the slice of time you provide, the more likely it is that the end will fall inside it, but that's still not a guarantee and I always took it a better standard not to impose time limits on one's god, as I had observed early on they tended to fail.

Meh, I think I've over-posted again.

[Titan]

Arguably the stuff that's repeated is of greater importance, but I was always more of a reveler in the power of almighty God. My favorite verse is Rev 1:8, which says something to the extent of "I am the Alpha and Omega, sayeth the Lord, that which Was, which Is, and which is forever to come, the Almighty." NKJ, of course. It's a much more potent wording of power than the poetic "I Am."

I like the unity of time but I also like the poetic description of Christ in Revelations...quite powerfully terrifying image (not strictly in a bad way).

Also, just as a reference, I never dared to call myself pre or postmillennialist. No pretrip or postrip or rapture shennanigans. No guesses as when the world would end. I just read the thing and always said it'd happen how it was supposed to happen when it happened.

Yeah, same here, there is a growing camp that agrees with this analysis of it.

And it always amazed me when my friends would tell me they were sure the end time were near.

I always wanted to be near people who gave a date because if they are giving away their stuff I think I could pick up a few nice things  

[PipeBox]

I always wanted to be near people who gave a date because if they are giving away their stuff I think I could pick up a few nice things  

[Stoicheion]

alright so if Heaven is only temporary. What is supposed to happen after it ends?

[curiosityandthecat]

I think I found the proof...


(Click picture for fullsize.)

[Jolly Sapper]

alright so if Heaven is only temporary. What is supposed to happen after it ends?

Freeze tag?

[Wraitchel]

Man, for a bunch of atheists, y'all sure talk about religion a lot.

[curiosityandthecat]

Man, for a bunch of atheists, y'all sure talk about religion a lot.

[Arthur Dent]

2012 is such BS.

"Were a million years overdue for a cosmic collision!"

Yeah, and we HAVE been for a MILLION YEARS....