UGH, some one PLEASE help me deal with this guy...

[Stoicheion]

In one of my groups in facebook there's a guy that keeps telling me Christianity is better than islam. Here's the conversation between him and i :

[me]
While Christianity condemns the indulgence in carnal human desires like greed, sexual activity, materialistic pleasures et cetera, Islam does not. Aside from specifics, there are many similarities between these religions and their texts.

True there are people who spread their religion in a peaceful, honorable way but that does not erase the fact that there are Muslim terrorists peoples and organizations that use their faith to torture, humiliate, discriminate, and persecute, there are equally Christian organizations an peoples who do the same. They still exist. Al Quaeda vs Fred Phelps, and other places like Exodus ministries who cling to their religion to instill fear.

Look at our own American history, let alone world history. There is and was just as much blood spilled by Christianity as Islam.

[him]
Okay the christian crusades were what somewhere just under a thousand years ago starting about 1100? The Spanish Inquistion was if I remember in the 1400's (been a will since I was in high school). AND, are you referring to the church of England? Well, that happened plus or minus 400 years ago. Or are you just refering to the Medieval times around 1300ish? with the plagues and back when people thought the world was flat?

I am referring to time today in 2008. I am not having crusades right now. I am scared of some fool tying bombs to themselves, cause they think when they kill an American they get 72 virgins. (ALALALLALALALALA!!!!!!) I would say that is a little more extreme than regular ol christian folks.

[me]
Once again your ignorance astounds me. You're only avoiding taking responsibility in recognizing that everything has an extreme. I took particular note that you mentioned nothing about Fred Phelps (if you don't know who he is then i would encourage you to do so), World War 1 or the Holocaust, the KKK or anything in recent history. If you think those don't matter anymore, then talk to your grandparents and ask them if it didn't impact them in a major way.

Are you really going to stereotype? If you are then i feel sorry for you.

Strapping a bomb to yourself is NOT a part of their religion. Strapping a bomb to yourself is as much a part of the Quaran as using a a computer is to the Bible. Those people do this because they are uneducated. They are unable to use discussion as a medium so they use fear tactics and propaganda to force people to side with them. Saying that they kill people - by the way, they don't only kill Americans; they kill anyone in their path : Jew or gentile, American soldier or Pakistani, European or westerner - for sex is a good comparison to say that certain christians hate Homosexuals, insist that they're right in everything without logical reasoning, and go to church every Sunday and Wednesday, and have a holy communion to go to heaven.

Give me some proof that all, or a percentage greater than 20, Muslims shoot and people and I'll agree with you and give you proof that all gun toting southerners are N*****-hating, uneducated, drunkard KKK members who beat their wives. Because that's what it equates to.

[him]
I live in the south. Hell, there is more blacks here in Hattiesburg than whites, and nobody is hating anyone. So you are saying you as a high schooler(or recent graduate) has more education on History than someone that teaches high school has a major in Music Education, and a minor in American History???? What about WW1 are you referring to? The Industrial revolution when European countries were out looking for a fight to show of new technology? What about the Holocaust, you meen people falling for Hitler and him referring to Jews as a scum religion? (have a comment on the Jew bashing ceremony Obama just attended??) and what about the KKK? did you know it started off a a fraternity? Also, turned the confederate battle flag so hippies would think it meens racism? Blacks fought for the south, and General Lee signed a statement along with other southern leaders to free the slaves before 1861? I wonder why blacks are apart of the Sons of Confedercy today???????

I don't hear about people dying hear everyday because of Fred Phelps!!!! I hear of casualties of Car bombs, IEDs, suicide bombers everyday because these people want to die for Ala to recieve 72 virgins. Does that not sound wrong? and perverted? anyways Obama is the Messiah, ALALALLALALALA!!!!


 

[Wraitchel]

You can't win because, although neither religion is better than the other, there is no possible proof of that. I'd stick to the principle that religious certainty leads to exactly the kind of argument you are having with this guy. You are both getting angry. Your blood pressure is through the roof. If you were just a bit angrier, or if either of you were under the influence of a violent organizing religious force, you might be taking that anger out on some person or group physically. Religion breeds violence.

[rlrose328]

While doing research on serial killers yesterday, I came cross many sites citing studies done on the religiosity that led most of the 20th century serial killers to do their crimes.  Most were raised in bible-toting, fear-based religion and the guilt that was shoved down their throats is partially responsible for their desire to kill... kill that which they were taught was evil or that which wouldn't ever accept them (Dahmer was possibly a homosexual from birth but hated himself for it, thus his killing of his casual pick-ups).  There is a true indicator of the damage that repressive religiosity can do to our world.

[Will]

We've got your back.

Ask him to cite specific verses from the Qur'an, and I can supply you with the equivalent quotes from the Bible.

[Stoicheion]

Thanks guys ^_^

I'll sure do that, Will.

[Stoicheion]

Alright... here was my reply. BEWARE the wall of text lol

With all due respect, nowhere did i say that i was smarter than you. I'm not going to react to your ad hominem attacks. Anger breeds hate. Hate breeds violence. So i'm going to get out of the way and be neutral. I've taken the time to do some reasearch.

WW1:
The heir to the Austria-Hungarian throne, Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife, were in Sarajevo on July 26, 1914. As they made their way through the crowded streets in an open carriage, shots rang out, and both of them were dead.

The people of Sarajevo were predominantly Serbians. Their religious conviction was that of Orthodox Christians. Since the year 1054, the Catholic church has been waging war against the Orthodox Christians. Fifty years prior to the assassination, the Croatians, who are Catholic, were becoming extremely vocal about their hatred for the Serbians, who were a rival of Rome and needed to be exterminated.

Pope Pius X, in his hatred of the Orthodox Christians, was continually inciting Emperor Francis Joseph of Austria-Hungary to ‘chastise the Serbians.’ After Sarajevo, on July 26, 1914, Baron Ritter, Bavarian representative at the Holy See, wrote to his government: “The Pope approves of Austria’s harsh treatment of Serbia. He has no great opinion of the armies of Russia and France in the event of a war with Germany. The Cardinal Secretary of State does not see when Austria could make war if she does not decide to do so now….” There, in true colours, is the Vicar of Christ [the pope], the gentle apostle of peace, the Holy Pontiff whom pious authors represent as having died of sorrow at seeing the outbreak of war. â€" Edmund Paris. The Vatican against Europe, The Wickliffe Press, p. 14.

One may say quite specifically that in 1914, the Roman Catholic Church started the series of hellish wars. It was then that the tribute of blood which she has always taken from the peoples began to swell into a veritable torrent. â€" Ibid, p. 48.

Thus we see that the pope realized that if Austria-Hungary crushed the Serbs, then the Serbs’ Orthodox Christian brothers from Russia would enter the fray. Then Germany, France and others would join in, and you have World War One.

The "jew bashing":
The latest guilt-by-association target that the McCain campaign is using to hit Barack Obama could carry some collateral damage for its own candidate.

As Politico's Ben Smith reported on Tuesday, the McCain campaign is demanding that the Los Angeles Times release video in its possession of a party attended by Barack Obama and Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi.

"A major news organization is intentionally suppressing information that could provide a clearer link between Barack Obama and Rashid Khalidi," said McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb, citing Obama's friendship with Khalidi, who is now a professor at Columbia University.

The McCain camp repeatedly pressed for media outlets to write about connections between Obama and Khalidi. In regards to Khalidi, however, the guilt-by-association game burns John McCain as well.

During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank.

The relationship extends back as far as 1993, when John McCain joined IRI as chairman in January. Foreign Affairs noted in September of that year that IRI had helped fund several extensive studies in Palestine run by Khalidi's group, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of "sociopolitical attitudes."

Of course, there's seemingly nothing objectionable with McCain's organization helping a Palestinian group conduct research in the West Bank or Gaza. But it does suggest that McCain could have some of his own explaining to do as he tries to make hay out of Khalidi's ties to Obama.

By the way, Khalidi was born in New York in 1950. Just so you don't jump the gun and say he's a foreigner. At a 2003 farewell dinner on the occasion of Khalidi leaving the Chicago Area for an appointment at Columbia University, Obama made one of several presentations in praise of Khalidi, and referred to having dined occasionally at Khalidi's home. During the 2008 election race, opponents of Barack Obama suggested the relationship was evidence that Obama would not maintain a pro-Israel foreign policy if elected. Countering by describing Khalidi as "a respected scholar, although he vehemently disagrees with a lot of Israel’s policy," Obama has stressed his own support for Israel and his differences with Khalidi, warned against guilt by association, and disputed the significance of the relationship for his own foreign-policy plans.

The holocaust:
Huge congregations, banners, sacred flames, processions, a style of popular and radical preachings, prayers-and-responses, memorials and funeral marches...These kinds of religious aspects of Nazism have led a variety of scholars to consider Nazism some kind of political religion.

The KKK:
The KKK originated in Pulaski, Tennessee after the end of the Civil War. The nineteenth century organization transformed from a social club to a vigilante band that used intimidation and violence to make their views known. The group in the South focused its attacks on the rising ambitions of the Negroes, but in other parts of the nation the Klan targeted Catholics, Jews, and immigrants. The KKK used the confederate flag to honor their ancestors. That i can respect, but i cannot respect what they stood for

The confederacy, the flag, and blacks:
You say that you are a minor in American History. Then you should understand the history behind the flag and why people, not just hippies or liberals, associate it with racism. The war of 1861-1865 was not a civil war. It was fought between two nations. When the Constitution was ratified the states retained the right to secede. When the rights of the Southern States were abrogated, they exercised that privilege. After withdrawing from the Union, they formed their own government, the Confederate States of America, a separate government. The state of Massachusetts had threatened to exercise this right only a few years previously, over the Louisiana Territory. The war was fought for constitutional rights.

This war was not fought over the issue of slavery. The North did not at first fight to free the slaves. "I have no purpose, directly, or indirectly, to interfere with slavery in the states where it exists," said Lincoln early in the conflict. The Union Congress overwhelmingly endorsed this position in July 1861, some three months after the war began in April. Within a year however, desperately trying to regain waning public support for the war, both Lincoln and the Congress decided to make emancipation of slaves in Confederate States a Union war policy.

It is interesting the U.S. Gen. Grant didn't free his own slaves until after the war was over. Gen. Lee himself didn't believe in slavey and had already freed his slaves. Another interesting fact is that only 6 percent of Southerners owned slaves, and among this 6 percent were 13,000 free blacks who owned slaves themselves.

The truth is that the vast majority of white people were very poor and had to work just as hard as the slaves to survive, and out of necessity, so did their sharecroppers.

This, i can agree with you on.

Fred Phelps:
The main focus of my mentioning of Fred Phelps was not to point out death by Christianity, as cliche as that sounds. I was citing his religious intolerance of homosexuals and RIDICULOUS claims. His congregation not only picketts any gay-related event, but he also picketts dead soldiers funerals, or any relief effort of a natural disaster or funeral from said disasters like Katrina, claiming that these things were an act divine retribution.

here's a youtube video that i think is interesting. It's between a WBC member and nonmember
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFMdQTpPKc4

And another video of some of the things he does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhr96Imu ... re=related

Lastly.... Please read the third paragraph of my previous post again.

I'd also like to add : Indulge me. Cite specific verses from the Qur'an, and I can supply you with the equivalent quotes from the Bible.


 

[Will]

I don't say this often, but "ROFL". Well met.

[curiosityandthecat]

[Stoicheion]

haha curio how many of those little video things do you have???  

[Asmodean]

haha curio how many of those little video things do you have???  :banna:

[curiosityandthecat]

haha curio how many of those little video things do you have???  :banna:

I am the a bottomless pit of memes and worthless knowledge. I'm Santa's bag.  

[Sophus]

You could bring up Westborough Baptist Church. Ha ha. You know what the Crusades and 9/11 have in common? They're both history. Does it matter how long ago it happened? It is still recorded in the books. If his logic says that only recent history is important then throw away that Bible and crack open a Koran, which is the "noble" text of the youngest major world religion.


Isn't it remarkable? Their God preaches love, peace and mercy with which they do what? Shove it aside and arrogantly stereotype and point their finger at 20 percent of the worlds population because their imaginary friend isn't as good as theirs.

[Stoicheion]

haha curio how many of those little video things do you have???  :banna:

I am the a bottomless pit of memes and worthless knowledge. I'm Santa's bag.