Only fools deal with absolutes...

[karadan]

So, I've been having a 'discussion' with a religious person on youtube... Initially, i was told that i'm ignorant of the absolute truth of god and jesus etc. My argument was that there are very few absolutes in this world. Most things in society contain a great many grey areas due to their illicit and complicated nature. I argued that religious people tend to over-simplify things like the age-old good vs evil argument and contextualise humanity in the same vein.

I'd like a really good example of the religious using grey areas to try to prove a point and seeing as many of the people on this forum are especially well read when it comes to the bible, thought you may be able to advise me.

Thanks

[Mister Joy]

Hmm. Well there's the teleological argument. "The universe has a perfect order, therefore there must be a perfect creator" and all that. The grey area being what you define as order/chaos.

Then there's moral ambiguity. Eg. The Book of Job, which teaches us a simple lesson: no matter what atrocious, horrific and/or sadistic things God does, he's still a swell guy. He wrote the definition of swell! So you can't argue. That and you should be crapping yourself with fear because if God can do that to what he deems to be a model Christian, what's he going to do you you!? etc.

In fact I'd say that the entirety of the Bible is about taking ambiguities, grey areas, epic complexities etc. and giving blunt, simplistic and insufficient answers. An even more basic example: "hmm how did the world come about?" "A wizard in the sky did it." So you can take your pick from anything really.

[myleviathan]

I'd like a really good example of the religious using grey areas to try to prove a point

I'll give you a great one: SALVATION  (another word for spending eternity with god in heaven and not to hell, if you're not familiar with it). Most believers are unclear on how this is supposed to work. Are you predestined to salvation because God is all knowing, or are you saved because you made the decision, aka free will? Or is it some sort of grey area? Most Christians jump for the grey area somewhere inbetween predestination and free will.

I've talked to a lot of Christians about this. Most of them say that God allowed them to believe, and they wouldn't have done so without him 'grabbing ahold of their heart'. So it was God's action that was responsible for their salvation, not their own. So that begs the question - do they really have free will? That then begs more questions - if the Chrisitian God does exist, and it's his action that calls ourselves to him, then it's not really our own fault that we're atheists. Like Pharoah, God has hardened our hearts, or at least not called us to himself yet making us able to believe. Christians would discuss this at a bible study for hours. So obviously salvation is a grey area.

How about this one - end times. Nuff said.

There are plenty of grey issues. But Christians have a great way of clearing those up: they focus on the death and resurrection of Jesus anytime they get too far into a debate with one another. They'll be like: "Jesus is the only thing that matters". That keeps them kind of obliviously centered. Very frustrating.

[Will]

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

There is no absolute truth of god, because in any given religion the different teachings of the god always end up being contradictory. Their argument is based on a false premise and is therefore fallacious.

[dodgecity]

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

I lol'd so hard.

Great examples, guys.