Who created you?

[JeremiahPeace]

Here is a question for you all?

What did you do before you lived?  What are you gona do after you live?  ANd who is between? (This is obvious it is yourself right)

now theyre are certain Books out there "the bible" that describes events.  Do you Believe them?  Or do you believe in history and science?  And that Man Creates everything?  Jesus was a man by the way and also divine in nature.

I am not trying to make you believe, but if you think of the facts...the reasoning only sugests that God created man.  Every living and non living thing was created by something.  Or are we all just dreaming and nothing exists.....But feel your hand, look at yourself in the mirror, have a glass of wine or something, can you feel?  if you do then it means that you are alive!  One more question does anyone hav children?  Who created that child...It was you and a parnter of love.  Someone created something and it keeps repeating, and who knows God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

Peace!

I am a noob here, but I love debates and I am deeply involved spirtualy.

-Jeremiah

[Whitney]

Hi JP, welcome to the forum.  I wrote out a full reply to your question and I must have forgotten to submit it since it didn't post.  Anyway.  Here's my response in a nut shell.

I do not believe we existed before being alive and I do not believe that we exist after we die.

What you are basically arguing thorugh your questions is that we are alive (I agree) and that since we are alive we must have a creator (this is where we disagree).

Just because something exists does not mean it had to be purposely created.  Evolution explains how complex life got here.  Abiogenesis (with more research) is likely to properly explain how life started.  There are also numerous non-god related theories on how the universe got here.  Although we don't know how the universe got here that does not make it right to use God as a gap filler.  

The most honest view of how the universe got here, imo, is I don't know.  There are many things we do not have the answers for (you probably don't fully understand how your computer works but you don't claim it is due to magic) so it's perfectly reasonable to say you don't know how the computer works.  But, unlike computers which we can research to find out how they work, the evidence necessary to find out the cause (or non-cause) of the universe is either destoryed or not yet found.

[Will]

Here is a question for you all?

I'm not sure that's a question.

What did you do before you lived?

I was a myriad of different things. I was a zygote before I was alive and before that I was sperm and egg. Those probably came from protein in my parent's diets, so maybe dairy, meat, or nut.

What are you gona do after you live?

I'll decompose.

now theyre are certain Books out there "the bible" that describes events.  Do you Believe them?

They don't present evidence that I can review and verify, so no.

Or do you believe in history and science?

Science and logic coupled with my developed sense of reason are generally my guide.

And that Man Creates everything?

Man creates what man creates. We've hardly created everything. We didn't cause the Big Bang. We didn't cause the rules of the universe. We didn't cause stellar matter to converge into stars and other stellar bodies. We didn't cause life.

Jesus was a man by the way and also divine in nature.

There's very little extra-biblical evidence that Jesus actually existed. It's possible, though. It's infinitely unlikely that he was more than a normal human being, if he did exist.

Every living and non living thing was created by something.

This isn't exactly right. Everything may have been preceded by something, but "created" suggests an intelligent designer for which there is no evidence.

One more question does anyone hav children?  Who created that child...It was you and a parnter of love.

Not everything follows the same steps in it's development or "creation" as children. Who created igneous rock? No one, it was "created" by volcanic activity. Is a volcano intelligent, sentient, or alive? No, of course not.

[afreethinker30]

Here is a question for you all?

What did you do before you lived?  What are you gona do after you live?  ANd who is between? (This is obvious it is yourself right)

now theyre are certain Books out there "the bible" that describes events.  Do you Believe them?  Or do you believe in history and science?  And that Man Creates everything?  Jesus was a man by the way and also divine in nature.

I am not trying to make you believe, but if you think of the facts...the reasoning only sugests that God created man.  Every living and non living thing was created by something.  Or are we all just dreaming and nothing exists.....But feel your hand, look at yourself in the mirror, have a glass of wine or something, can you feel?  if you do then it means that you are alive!  One more question does anyone hav children?  Who created that child...It was you and a parnter of love.  Someone created something and it keeps repeating, and who knows God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

Peace!

I am a noob here, but I love debates and I am deeply involved spirtualy.

-Jeremiah

Thank you for being respectful on your questions.It's a nice change to see some asking and not telling.Myself I think life was a accident nothing more.If you look into other religions you will see a God/Gods and various other reasonings behind life.I think when we die that is just that.I believe that living on is only thru the lives of our family and friends.I don't see why there has to be reason behind life and death.It is just that.It's good for you to have a belief in God,but God isn't for everyone.And religion shouldn't be used to rip people apart.But it is.People should be able to believe in what they choose,without having it be a punishment.So are gay,black or just different,no one should have to be ashamed of who and what they are.You'll have to excuse any typos or various nonsense bad hip and good pain killers.

[afreethinker30]

I will say though that even if there was proof...that I would be more angry then anything else.The world is just to screwed up and I think anyone good and loving with power to stop it would.

[myleviathan]

"the bible"

I can just picture Dr. Evil going: "the bible" using his quotation fingers.

God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

That's an interesting thought, Jeremiah - may I ask what denomination of Christianity you belong to?

[jcm]

What did you do before you lived?

I don’t know, do you?

What are you gona do after you live?

I don’t know, do you?

ANd who is between? (This is obvious it is yourself right)

Whatever I want, gosh!

now theyre are certain Books out there "the bible" that describes events. Do you Believe them?

Historical events, sure. Magical events, no.  

Or do you believe in history and science?

I believe where there is evidence

And that Man Creates everything?

???

Jesus was a man by the way and also divine in nature?

David Copperfield can turn water in to wine too.

I am not trying to make you believe, but if you think of the facts...the reasoning only sugests that God created man.

Why does it have to be god, why not something else?  

One more question does anyone hav children? Who created that child...It was you and a parnter of love. Someone created something and it keeps repeating, and who knows God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

Take these two ideas and compare them. Which one do you honestly think happened:

God created man in “his” own image

Or

Man created god in “his” own image

[Asmodean]

What did you do before you lived?

I did not exist, so nothing.

What are you gona do after you live?

Die, obviously  :raised: Yes, what about the facts?

the reasoning only sugests that God created man.

No, faith, blind and ignorant faith, suggests that. Reasoning suggests something totally different.

Every living and non living thing was created by something.

So what created your god?

Or are we all just dreaming and nothing exists.....But feel your hand, look at yourself in the mirror, have a glass of wine or something, can you feel?

If I drink wine in a dream, I still feel like I'm drinking wine. Terrible example.

if you do then it means that you are alive!

I feel because I live. But do I live because I feel?

One more question does anyone hav children?  Who created that child...

I don't have kids, but I can very well tell you who created me. My mom and my dad having a one night stand in a very un-godly fashion.

Someone created something and it keeps repeating, and who knows God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

If you define my ancestor as god, then I am many times the god for my greater brain capacity and capability of creation and destruction.

Peace!

I am a noob here, but I love debates and I am deeply involved spirtualy.

Try not to be a troll in the future. Back your claims up with more than hollow words and bad examples.

[OldGit]

The central point of your argument appears to be that the existence of a creator explains creation better than Science, which cannot give a reason for, or explanation of, the Big Bang.
Sorry, it doesn't work.  What you are doing is bundling all the problems into one entity - god - which poses a bigger problem than you had before. Who created god? A bigger god?  You get an infinite regress.
Occam's Razor is the name for the philosophical principle that you solve nothing by adding layers in this way, you only complicate the problem.  (Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, attributed to William of Ockham, a 14th century theologian.)

[karadan]

I guess some people cannot be happy unless everything is conveniently explanable. Where did the universe come from? God, of course! That is a far easier hypothesis than an enormous explosion which happened 14 billion years ago, giving birth to the universe. I can see why so many people side with the God theory. Unfortunately that theory is totally incorrect.

What did we do before we were here? We didn't exist, that's what. I was dead for 14 billion years before i was born, and i'll be dead for the rest of time after i die. There is nothing to experience in oblivion because you do not have a brain to experience it. The only reason humans cannot fully comprehend death is because the brain is a device which functions within the living world and needs lots of sensory data to make sense of things. Without that data, the mind is nothing and cannot register anything. Similarly, we do not really register sleep because the brain has almost fully shut down. That is why, when you wake up, you do not think "man, those last eight hours sleeping were so boring!"

400 years ago, the general concensus was that the earth was flat. 200 years ago, most still thought that we were the centre of the universe. In 200 years time, we'll laugh at the minority who still cling to the theory that an invisible creator in the sky made us all - 6000 years ago, no less.

[LARA]

I was created by the uniting of two gametes whose haploid genetic material then became diploid.  Probably with the help of some maternal transcription factors, the information carried by my new chromosomes was transcibed into RNA which was translated to proteins which began a beautifully confusing and complicated cascade of biochemistry.  The results of these chemical reactions resulted in the switching on and off of various genes on said chromosomes through time, and using the energy gained from my maternal parent through what is now only my belly button, I built a small body.

Prior to this my gamete donors went through much the same processes, theirs before them and so on and so forth, and most of the time all these biochemical reations went accordingly.  Occaisionally, however, there were errors, changes or mutations that resulted in many things.  A change could be fatal, it could be harmless and not really affect anything, or it could cause something new to occur.  If I look back very far in the past, over many, many changes, and millions of years, I can figure that we all could have been something rather different, and fossils back up this idea.

Prior to this, there are a few interesting proposols about where all this started, but I'm really fond of the hypothesis that we originated right here on our own planet by natural processes without alien intervention or mystical swirlings or what have you.  I don't need a who in my answer because I have a what and my what is nature.

[susangail]

Welcome to the forum!

What did you do before you lived?

I don't think I "did" anything. I didn't exist.

What are you gona do after you live?  

I don't think I will do anything. After I live, I will cease to exist.

ANd who is between? (This is obvious it is yourself right)

I am me between birth and death, if that's what you mean.

now theyre are certain Books out there "the bible" that describes events.  Do you Believe them?

No, to me they are as real as the Illiad and the Odyssey.

Or do you believe in history and science?  

I don't really believe in history and science. I believe they are true (more or less), but I don't put my life into them.

And that Man Creates everything?  

That depends on what you mean by "create". Man created the ipod (invented more like it). I personally think man also created gods and religion. But what do you mean by "everything"?

Jesus was a man by the way and also divine in nature.

Belief, not fact.

I am not trying to make you believe,

Thank you very much. I appreciate you not preaching fire and brimstone.

but if you think of the facts...the reasoning only sugests that God created man.  Every living and non living thing was created by something.

.....so therefore God must exist? I don't agree with God-of-the-gaps logic. And remember they are "facts" to you, but not everyone.

...can you feel?  if you do then it means that you are alive!  

But does the fact that I'm alive mean God created me?

One more question does anyone hav children?  Who created that child...It was you and a parnter of love.  Someone created something and it keeps repeating, and who knows God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

Yes, men and women make children. But does that mean God created me?


I personally don't know if I was divinely created or not, and it doesn't matter to me.


Looking forward to your responses. Happy posting!

[Smallville]

Here is a question for you all?

What did you do before you lived?  What are you gona do after you live?  ANd who is between? (This is obvious it is yourself right)

now theyre are certain Books out there "the bible" that describes events.  Do you Believe them?  Or do you believe in history and science?  And that Man Creates everything?  Jesus was a man by the way and also divine in nature.

I am not trying to make you believe, but if you think of the facts...the reasoning only sugests that God created man.  Every living and non living thing was created by something.  Or are we all just dreaming and nothing exists.....But feel your hand, look at yourself in the mirror, have a glass of wine or something, can you feel?  if you do then it means that you are alive!  One more question does anyone hav children?  Who created that child...It was you and a parnter of love.  Someone created something and it keeps repeating, and who knows God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

Peace!

I am a noob here, but I love debates and I am deeply involved spirtualy.

-Jeremiah

Welcome.

To your questions: there's nothing before and nothing after that's supernatural, spiritual, metaphysical. The here and now, the present, is what there is - again, nothing supernatural, spiritual, metaphysical.

Books are written by man. Some attribute divine inspiration but there is no proof other that someone's word. Events described in the Bible are based on oral history that has changed over time. Jesus, if he existed, was a man, made divine by a conclave of church elders.

Check your reasoning - suggestion does not imply truth. Rather, reasoning suggests that man created God to explain things that he does not understand yet.

There is no need to attribute a supernatural cause to anything where the natural cause has not been discovered yet.

[Evolved]

Hey JP!  Welcome to the forum.

What did you do before you lived?

Nothing.  It's impossible to do anything before you are conceived.  What did you do before you lived?

What are you gona do after you live?

I will stop living.  No lights at the end of the tunnel.  Just peace (and quiet).  I will feel the same way that I felt before I was born.

ANd who is between?

I am in between.  My family is in between.  My loved ones are in between.  It is a glorious ride.

now theyre are certain Books out there "the bible" that describes events.  Do you Believe them?  Or do you believe in history and science?

Just as you state, the bible describes events.  There is no logical reason to believe in the accuracy of the events that are depicted.  The movie Shrek also describes events.  I don't believe them, either.  Fun to watch, though.

Jesus was a man by the way and also divine in nature.

By the way, Jesus, if he did exist, was not divine.  There are no secular accounts of Jesus' existance that were written during his supposed lifetime.  The secular accounts that you have seen were written many years after his supposed crucifixion.

...but if you think of the facts...the reasoning only sugests that God created man.  Every living and non living thing was created by something.  Or are we all just dreaming and nothing exists.....But feel your hand, look at yourself in the mirror, have a glass of wine or something, can you feel?  if you do then it means that you are alive!  One more question does anyone hav children?  Who created that child...It was you and a parnter of love.  Someone created something and it keeps repeating, and who knows God can be your great ancestor that initatied the mold for your personal existance today!

You have unfortunately fallen into the same pitfall that many theists have.  The things that you describe are quite amazing - the senses of taste, touch, and vision; the complex emotions of love.  These are amazing feats of nature that have grown in complexity over eons.  Since we only live for about 70 or 80 years, it is very hard for us to imagine that our lifetime is but a blink of cosmic eye, but it is just that.  These things that seem miraculous have developed over time periods that we will never experience.  It is therefore easier to explain them by attributing their existence to a higher power.

We welcome your debate...but share some of your own beliefs.  That will help us get to know you better.

[Loffler]

Jeremiah,

The problem with the belief that everything has a creator is that 99% of the world is up for debate on that matter. If you change the wording to "How much of reality has been demonstrated to have had a creator," we get a very different answer: most things have not.