All Atheists/Scientologists/Agnostics will burn!

[McQ]

I never intended to feed any trolls. I intended to Milk Trolls.

Religious Trolls, specifically. Debate is not the point with a Troll, as Trolls are incapable, and debate is a two-way street. Psychological dissection, on the other hand, might be most illuminating. They are the Enemy - and you know it - because you DO act upon that, as you do even now.

All I say is - isolate them, but don't eliminate them. You have already done that, so we agree here. I'm just saying - don't kill the thread. The thread dies of its own accord when no one responds anymore. If you don't want to tease (good info) out of a Troll, don't go there, don't respond to them. Others might find it useful, enjoyable, or both; otherwise - why did you save the old thread at all?

Some here openly worry about - apparently fear - being offended, and I can't relate. No one may offend me unless I permit it. Try it sometime.

If you really, truly want to avoid offense, never, ever go outdoors or communicate in any way, ever again. I do not think it a viable solution.

I recall particularly a patient who was deeply and pathologically offended by pornography that some junior high kids had sent her anonymously, and - she simply couldn't get over it. It filled her dreams, it destroyed her work - a single email, with a single small photo. It hospitalized her. She ALLOWED it to be so. It is pathological to render oneself completely defenseless to minor insult - and it is all just a matter of degree.

It is an image on a screen. The image does nothing, it is completely harmless - the interpretation is everything, and it is hers, and she has complete control - but instead, she paid big bucks to find the perpetrators. She never did, but of course, had she, what relief does that grant?

I will reflexively defend others, but not when they refuse to defend themselves on the most basic level - it's hopeless.    

Promethium, if you do not like the forum, it is your right to say so. If you do not like the way it is run, same thing. Feel free. But the forum will remain a place where people try first to show respect and act accordingly. Baiting trolls, or as you put it, milking trolls, isn't doing that. Don't presume again to tell me how I should think or feel, by the way. You act as if you are the only one who has a clue about the world and the internet with the things you've said. That would be incorrect, and you need to understand that people here are intelligent and heterogeneous. We don't all think the same way. You will have to learn to live with that in order to be a meaningful participant here.

No one said we had to avoid offense. It happens, usually inadvertently, sometimes on purpose. But it is not the goal of interaction with others. We strive to make this place an enjoyable place for meaningful discussion. You ignored that in my last post. If you want to create your own place to bait trolls, no one is stopping you.

[afreethinker30]

There is freedom of speech here not freedom of hate.

[Asmodean]

We strive to make this place an enjoyable place for meaningful discussion.

...And it's up to every member to see that it remains so.

[Promethium147]

Promethium, if you do not like the forum, it is your right to say so. If you do not like the way it is run, same thing.

I like the way it is run very much - but this does not mean I think it may not possibly be improved. The slightest of tweaks is what I suggest, at a big profit.

You are interpreting my suggestion as complaint, and my complaint as universal - you are projecting, and making me Straw Man in the process. I like that you can do that, and I like that I may detect and object - and correct you. You make interpretation that is not available from my text, and criticize THAT - not me. Criticising Me won't work either - you need to focus on the proposition.

I am suggesting an improvement at NO COST, save small additional storage. I am suggesting democracy with individuality in Troll Blocking. Contain (as you do now), Exemplify (as you do now) Hold (as you do now), do this more, and then - don't waste time stopping it, if no one wants it, it is functionally and defacto blocked. Save big time tracking them by - spotting once, and isolating. They don't get out of solitary until - some good member recommends they do; 12 Good Men is appropo, I think - but whatever. I heartily agree that they should not be allowed to wander. If blocked, they may change persona, and come right back in the front door - I do it all the time, and easily make it undetectable - and you waste more time hunting.

At least you haven't detected ME doing it yet. You could - and I could change that.

Time is saved by Admin and Mod in my scheme. You could even require that isolation involve report and censure by voting groups of, er, Laity. Big time saver again. Admins, Mods are too valuable to waste on Troll Judging - I'm sure you would agree, but - that is Presuming how you Think.

The Troll disappears when no one bothers to respond, or better yet - the poor imbecile just keeps typing, and keeps off the street.

Feel free. But the forum will remain a place where people try first to show respect and act accordingly.

I do - but it doesn't yet. Trolls come in the front door, they are in the living room awhile before they are blocked. Move to Solitare, and KEEP them there - with light entertainment from volunteers like me. They go there unawares - as usual.

But you only respect those that agree, or those that disagree politely (agree with your process.) YOU do not respect them, but I do - they are actually physically dangerous. BUT - how do we deal with those that Violently Disagree? Do we ignore Violence completely - are we academics here? I was one - and now I'm not. I grew up. There is strength yet left in me. The Trolls are human beings; but if allowed to be violent and stupid in text, they waste violence there - instead of on the street. Frustrate them here, and they RUN into the street.

And if someone Hates me, I want to know about it - preferably from a safe place, like the Aether.

Overcoming (internally) offense from the Troll is overcoming the Troll - he seeks to offend, it is his primary drive, and there is no possibility - yet - of discourse with him.

It is very easy - just laugh instead, or go elsewhere - but don't carry the offense with you, that's what the Troll wants. If you take offense when you need not, you collude with him, allow him to injure you. He now owns your head.

Pickin' HIS teenie head is how we get inside. Once inside - it might be changed. More likely, we may find a way - to disable it, even put it in a useless (for his purposes) loop. You say it is one Troll, and I say that by naming it you generalize it. By dealing with one Troll, we may likewise learn generalize how to deal with Trolls quickly AND much more effectively.

It keeps them off the street, and gives us tools to deal with them if we should meet them there.

Baiting trolls, or as you put it, milking trolls, isn't doing that.

But as I say - we do not respect them ENOUGH, and we need to admit that. We do it to their backs, when we could do it to their faces, and get some substantive results. You block them - from lack of respect - and forget. I see what they DO, in public, and cannot forget - they won't let me; I only respect them as dangerous, they commit any crime enthusiastically in the Name of the Lord. I do not respect their potential for change, but I respect mine - and yours.

I never block first - I simply stand aside. I bait, he swings, I stand aside again. He becomes frustrated, works harder at what is not working (none too bright), becomes exhausted - BUT I am only warmed up, and evil is contained - perhaps even enlightened.

Thanks for the tip, O'Sensei! Aikido is best, methinks.

Don't presume again to tell me how I should think or feel, by the way.

AH, the lightly veiled threat. You accuse me of Theory of Mind, and I assent.

You apparently Know how I Think and presume to say so, but I say you should better assess a man's fears before you threaten him to be effective. Ya might get creamed otherwise.

I am honestly reporting my awareness of how you evidently feel. Don't be Feely, be Thinky. It's hard to tell what Feelies Think - they do not express it well.

So when you wield an axe and rush at me screaming, I may presume you are angry - for I must - but I may not presume to say so - you will become more angry, and give me bigger owies. However, as I contend above, in such a situation you are losing control, and I am gaining it. If you seek control by blocking me here, I may rebel and come at you harder - that's what Trolls do. Cogent Trolls are just aware of it.

I tweak for attention, then try to hold it - and only to help, mebbe you, mebbe me, mebbe both, mebbe more. It is essentially different.

You act as if you are the only one who has a clue about the world and the internet with the things you've said.

AH! now you Presume to tell me what I think, when you may merely quote me. Guess what - that's what you need to do. We can't help having Theory of Mind, and we need it to survive.

In order to proceed effectively to action, I must assume I am correct - lest I question action during action, before results are seen, hesitate, and am lost. Thus I never learn what the result might be, feel a loss, and feel I was wrong to try - mistakenly, that is not a logical conclusion.

I said things as if I knew them because I thought I did - but if you contend I am wrong, contradict me - convince me, evidence. Saying you merely don't like it doesn't wash.

So - what did I say to indicate that I was the ONLY ONE who had a clue? Does merely implying I have a clue further imply I think myself the only one? Straw Man ad hominem?

That would be incorrect, and you need to understand that people here are intelligent and heterogeneous.

But - am I incorrect in presuming I have a clue, or in presuming I'm the Only One with a clue? Nebulous. Demonstrate I am Incorrect, don't just say so - we both need that.

If I thought it was about heterogeneity, I would not come - to exchange recipes. I came to inspire and organize actions, and to be inspired and organized by others.

I always show respect for my Superiors - if any. Then I go further, and respect my equals.

But I reign contempt upon inferiors in proportion to their inferiority, motivating them until they do NOT comply, but RISE to the occasion, and become as good or better than me. I seek Leadership by Example, and Authority by Force - to be lead, to lead, or to confront, but NEVER to apply force.

We don't all think the same way. You will have to learn to live with that in order to be a meaningful participant here.

So - it is clear I am threatened more than once here with "consequences." WhoopDeDo. Homogeneity - by exclusion. How safe - how warm - what comfort - what illusion.

If we don't want to promote and spread our ideas to those that do not have them, or collect ideas from others, then why are we here - or anywhere, speaking? Reassuring ourselves? Do we seek Reality itself, where we may disagree and learn thereby, or a comfortable but false Consensus Reality of Safety? Not on MY watch!

No one said we had to avoid offense.

But many whine about offenses, and tend to avoid them - like TrollBlocking.

I love being offended, it's nature's way of telling you something's wrong - it gives me practice dealing, and there will always be more to deal with. Others may opt out, and under the scheme I propose they may - even better than now - but I like to Deal, and I like to learn to Deal first.

And so, I am drawn to those who offend me. I often depart from those I agree with to go forth - and hunt our enemies, preemptively. These Trolls provide me Great Service, more service as they try to hurt more. They see I am not hurt - and collapse in exhaustion. Then - they tend to be convinced, or at least wonder why they do not win, and I do. It's a start.

It happens, usually inadvertently, sometimes on purpose.

I do it on purpose, as does the Troll, but - you seem to regard me as something more, and go to great lengths, which I appreciate and admire. I sought attention - and got it. The trick is to hold it.

GrandPa Ghengis said - " To conquer is one thing, to govern is another." We all SEEK governance by something greater than ourselves - but as Atheists, we see this thing to be within us, and within others.

Troll sez we need God, I say we need - Everyone, absolutely everyone.

But it is not the goal of interaction with others.

It is not a goal, but a method; not an ends, but a very useful means.

Before we attain Interaction's Objectives Themselves, we will encounter Opposition - and must learn to overcome, or stop. You seem to seek interaction without disagreement in this statement you offer - which I contend (for I am most contentious, and I find it effective) severely limits capacity for interaction. I Deal. Then, I get to Interact more.

A fistfight is an Interaction, too - from which we may learn much. I likes a little SkullBone; others do as well - or there would be none, two must tango.

I may demonstrate Superiority over another as example to him and others - or in defeat, acquire superiority over my prior self, and demonstrate willingness to change.

We strive to make this place an enjoyable place for meaningful discussion. You ignored that in my last post.

And it is an enjoyable place, and I have found meaningful discussion. Thus I think the point Moot. We can keep that meaning, and add more - and profit by it - and give greater enjoyment, too. That's all I'm saying, Dewd.

Yes, I do not comply with NiceNess always. I am a manipulator (after all, I have hands.) But I try to manipulate to good ends, Thick Face / Black Heart, and this requires speaking Truth AND Lies.

If you feel it is less than True, argue - discuss. But if you feel it is somehow True and it Hurts and are unsure why, then consider this -

We often say "the Truth Hurts." But I say this is a lie itself, of the worst sort - a half-truth, a trap for the unwary. I like to say - "the Truth Hurts LIARS!", for if the Truth Hurts, my friends - we are, in some sense, lying. We thus hurt ourselves. Hopefully, self-flagellation alone corrects us - but we must be willing.

Truth does Good alone - and it is Good that Liars find Punishment, and go forth to seek Truth as a result.

If you want to create your own place to bait trolls, no one is stopping you.

You're right, I can - and I've yet to meet the man who can stop me - but that would be for my own benefit. In an of myself I am perfectly an easily content, but - what about the rest? DisContents attack - what can I do about that? I am a man concerned with others, but not equally - they are many, I am few, the math is simple, and I NEVER avoid the math.

You are ignoring my math, and criticizing my personal peccadilloes. Excellent, and I thank you, but it was not the issue at hand.

Now - try the math.

You already create quite a draw, and most deservedly so - but this entails a certain responsibility, at the very least, to consider my proposition in isolation, without bias.

You would discard my proposition on the basis that I'm an apparent know-it-all, for instance (I said I knew something you didn't) - ad hominem, and become distracted from my proposal, and from your own possible profit. Then you don't contradict me, you merely say I am a Dick - and I agree! On to the Issue?

The only way to determine if I am wrong is experiment - try it. If it costs more than it yields, I am wrong, and you are right - and if you can avoid that, you rule from an armchair.

I do not want to distract anyone from this site. I want to build on it - and never, ever stop, you are in my eyes absolutely, positively going in the right direction, and profit by it. I would go further, and profit more.

We disagree on a minor point, which led to major disagreement on content, process and objectives of disagreement. That is Good.

Outside your door, SkullBone awaits thee, unavoidable physical argument. Let's do what we can to stop it - from here.

R.S.V.P.?

XoXoXo,

Luci.

[Whitney]

I don't want this forum to be a troll home...the reason this forum stays peaceful is because we keep trolls to a minimum.  What I said yesterday still stands.  McQ and I do not have the time right now to be arguing with you over administrative decisions we have already discussed at length over the life of the forum.

If you want to play with trolls there are numerous other forums you can visit.  Trolls are a waste of time, by their very definition they are just around to cause trouble, not to learn, not to be challenged, and definitely not to contribute anything positive to the online community.

btw, pro, you need to learn how to use quotes properly.  I didn't even bother reading most of your last post because it was so jumbled.

[Promethium147]

Let me be abundantly clear - I am proposing the further reduction of trolls on the main forums by doing less work.

There are many benefits I propose, and perhaps this is confusing, but - this benefit, Troll Reduction, is definitely one of them.

And I further propose that it is done by doing much less work - for you and everyone else.

The only cost is storage - and I hereby offer to PAY MYSELF for that.

No one will bother to contradict it, only to say Trolls are Bad. I agree - but then, I think how to reduce them better. Then I explain - and the best I can get is Straw Man, ad hominem, and threat responses - from a Moderator, on a FreeThink site! Most disturbing.

All I propose is - doing what you are doing, but doing it better by doing less.

Why, oh why, does it anger you? Someone please tell me. I think it is because - it was not your idea. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Is there ANYONE out there who debates a point, and not a Debater?

PS as you can see from the unbolded text firmly between two Bold delimiters at the end of the post - the fault is not mine.

[Asmodean]

Let me be abundantly clear - I am proposing the further reduction of trolls on the main forums by doing less work.

You propose troll reduction?! We hardly even get any trolls here as it is.

All I propose is - doing what you are doing, but doing it better by doing less.

Sorry, this patent, asmodean no buy. And Asmodean no think LaetusAtheos buy it either and on this forum, she is the "buyer" that matters.

Why, oh why, does it anger you? Someone please tell me. I think it is because - it was not your idea. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I suggest you phrase your idea well and make a poll out of it. See what people have to say.

[Promethium147]

EGAD, silly me - I just figgered how to do it, all by my lonely, within this site - but I should remember that one must always Agonize a while to get 'r done, rest, then - Eureka!

I'll start a thread attractive to Trolls. That may take experiment. I will experiment elsewhere, if possible - and it is.

I will send something to pay for space - as we all should, but which I severely doubt. I needed to really check you out first. Then I found - Beautiful Loffler. There is at least one good man in Sodom, so no Nukes, please.

Optionally, If anyone has Trolls, DON'T respond to them, point them out to me, and I will draw them into the thread. Saves you work, right now. Those who won't go, die - but oh, they will be back. Others may watch, or play, or never come.

Optionally, If you want to kill the thread, you may - but to do so without justification is blind censorship. I will try to remember - I fear little compared to others, and I must apply compassion to fears deeply embedded.

I overcome what I fear, and I can certainly overcome censorship - do it all the time.

XOXOXO,

LUCI.

Why poll what I may Do?

[Promethium147]

It's not a problem, Asmodean - in fact, I'm quite sure that I can provide tens of thousands of Trolls. That cannot be stopped.

No, we are the buyers, free or not. If L puts up a site and no one comes, then no go for L.  If some come, better. if no grow, insular world, some leave. Feelies stay, who cares - goin' nowhere. If too big, limits - how sad. Pay money, make bigger. That's the WHOLE schema.

Speaking of limits, are you a cash contributor? Match me $100, Dewd, opening bid. If not, I pay by Aug. 5th anyway.

It is not about us - there is work to be done. If you don't like it - stop me. FREEDOM!

I just say you outta like it, but no one responds to a single, solitary POINT. I guess I won't argue, because you won't. I Do Things now.

Have a Day.

LUCI.

[Asmodean]

Speaking of limits, are you a cash contributor? Match me $100, Dewd, opening bid. If not, I pay by Aug. 5th anyway.

Depending on what the money goes to, I'll see your 100 and raise 50.  

[Whitney]

If I was not clear enough before....we do not want to have a bunch of trolls on this forum; it is not an issue of funding.

[Sophus]

How ironic that a Christian should say "Don't let your 'knowledge' get the better of you" when they believe it is their knowledge of Christ that saves them from the pits of hell. Knowledge equals power, and by that I have conquered the universe. The only perplexing mystery to me is anyone who views intelligence as a flaw.