Are intelligent people intrinsically less religious?

[karadan]

Richard dawkins once suggested that religious people were less well educated and had a lesser degree of intellectual abilities. A study had once been conducted into this (can't remember by whom but it is spoken about in one of Richard Dawkins' PET lectures) which proved a vast majority in favour of people who held no belief in a deity, and their intellectual capacity.

So, i decided to try a little experiment...

Whilst browsing youtube, i found a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTRDRP2n4Sk

Essentially it is a vid about an atheist girl ostracised from her school because of her beliefs. When i see vids like this i generally spend some time reading many of the comments. Obviously topics like this will have comments left by people with strong polar opinions.

So, i chose 16 comments at random (i closed my eyes and scrolled down or up for varying lengths of time and whichever comment i clicked on, i used) and studied the varying levels of spelling, punctuation and grammar within each comment. Please note that i clicked the 'show all comments' button and used quotes from the first 3 pages of results. None of the following quotes have been altered in any way. I've divided the quotes into two categories. Believers and non-believers:


Non-believers:
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Is this christian 'extremism' an occurance that solely happens in america? Or is this widespread throughout the world? Does this happen where you live?
I live in England, and this doesnt happen here (as far as i know). It would be interesting if people left comments.
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exactly, well put djmccart. at least today DNA has been shown to exist, countless science experiments have showed beyond a reasonable doubt that DNA exists. Yet there hasnt been a singal one that has shown that god exists. And until is evidence, I will not believe in god.
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I'm an atheist in the closet too. This just isn't a country to be an atheist in right now. I like how people can't understand the concept of a lack of belief though. "I don't know what they believe", "I don't know what gods they believe in".

It is really sad that we still haven't gotten over atheist bashing as a society. This is probably not a school to be a homosexual in either.
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what a backward bunch of yahoos we americans are. what a bunch of bull religion is, these religous are evil at their core who use fear of god to supress the ghouls within them, i dont believe in god and am a more moral person that any of the religohipicrites like the ones at the school who turn the teachings of jesus on its head
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what the fuck does politics have to do with God ? So you think I'm a fucking Bush supporter because I worship God? Broaden your mind and quit placing people in groups just b/c you think you know everything. God isn't a concept. I'm not going to argue the point over the internet. Nor do I need to. People have denied God since we were created. Its not a new concept.
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There is hate coming from "Christians" on this thread as well, just your screenname itself screams hatred. Don't be such a hypocrite and post with some sort of intellect and you could be taken seriously
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Why the heck should she pretend to pray? I wouldn't pretend to pray either, because it's MY right and not my belief! I would like to see what a christian would say if they had to kneel down at 3'00 o'clock or something like that and face the east to give a prayer to muhamed or whatever his name is. Yup I would really like to see their reactions, bunch of hippocrites.
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"has there ever been a satisfactory atheist society?" ... Not yet - Communism was a wash-out. But one day, when humankind stops believing in fairies, goblins and gods, perhaps ... BTW - do you mean complimenting, or complementing? The difference is enormous.
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Believers:
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not that i agree with wat the school did, but Christians don't shun other religions or atheist! i have a ton of atheist friends! wen the father said that to proof that there is no god is the lack of proof there is, there is actually so yea...
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I wonder if he realizes people dont like cuz hes a Jerk not cuz hes an Atheist. Its just too bad what His beliefs (which he imposed on his daughter) have ruined her highschool years.
Now she will have to go to the prom with her brother
One point given per mistake/broken rule.

The results are: (plus or minus 5% deviation for the fact that in no way have i perfected the English language, but i do try).

Non-believers: 11 points
Believers: 35 points

So, the amount of errors by believers outweighs non-believers by just over 3-1

This little experiment isn't really designed to be conclusive in any way (a sample of 16 quotes from a total of 7000+ from just one topic isn't fully representative) but was just a bit of fun. It is also worth noting that i found 8 quotes from non-believers very fast but it took some time to find 8 believer quotes.

[Will]

This page is full of non-believers who fail in life and family. Highest divorce rate, and murderers.....yep,....atheists

This must have been said sarcastically. Everyone knows that the highest divorce rate, highest murder rate in the west, and highest rape count all belong to Christianity, even per capita.

[Whitney]

I think #5 under non-believers is a believer and #5 under believers is a non-believer.

[Kona]

Haha!  I remember this one time when I posted on a believer's website and used a word that was obviously outside the scope of their vocabulary.  They jumped on me for being one of those 'elitists' who uses big words to impress people....and they were not impressed, by golly!!!  The word I used was "milieu".   Damn you  Fox News for the dumbing-down of America!!!!!

[karadan]

I think #5 under non-believers is a believer and #5 under believers is a non-believer.

oops. my bad..

[rlrose328]

I don't think it's a surprise that the comments by believers are, by and large, more vitriolic and error-laden as a random sampling.  I've said for awhile that non-believers, as a whole, appear to be more intelligent and composed than believers.  I think it's because we are generally better-read than they are, having done so much research and reading about both science and belief.  And the non-believer population has a higher concentration of higher-educated folks as well, I believe.  Just a general assumption, not a statistical fact.

That's just my pondering, of course.  Your mileage may vary.

[rlrose328]

They jumped on me for being one of those 'elitists' who uses big words to impress people....and they were not impressed, by golly!!!  The word I used was "milieu".

That's funny!  I get that quite a bit, too.  And when you explain what it means, they say, "Why didn't you just SAY that?"    I use plenty of 50 cent words when I'm talking to moms at my son's school... but I will use a $10 word when I need to.  Because sometimes... SOMETIMES... the $10 word fits much better than the 50 cent word does... it's more accurate.

Damn you  Fox News for the dumbing-down of America!!!!!

[nikkixsugar]

karadan: I wouldn't make it a logical premiss, or rule, but statistically, yes.  

[joeactor]

How about this?
Graph: IQ vs Religiosity

Comes from this blog:
IQ vs Religiosity

The post also has some refs to research by Pew, and a PDF from a study on IQ and Religiosness (sp?).

The more you know,
JoeActor

[LARA]

That's a really interesting mini-study Karadan, and at times I'm inclined to believe that non-believers are more intelligent, perhaps simply because I am one, but I think that's a pretty dangerous position to take.

Non-believers may simply be more emotional types, they may tend to be younger, or far older. There's too many factors involved to make quick assumptions about intelligence.  Plus you have to get into the definition of what exactly constitutes a believer and a non-believer and what defines intelligence.  It starts to feel like studies where people have tried to prove that other races or genders are more or less intelligent and try to rank people by their intelligence.

My own life experience also does not hold that believers are less intelligent.  I have known so many people personally to be Christians or believers of some sort; teachers, professors, etc. who I hold in high regard as far as their intellectual capabilities who can disprove the hypothesis that believers are less intelligent. I could start a list of names of people who disprove Dawkins position and still be listing for many days to come.

Belief in a spiritual being is only one aspect of a person's personality. For some, it may be the only unproven belief that they carry, and they might hold onto it for many different types of emotional reasons.  The argument is interesting and might boost our own egos to a certain extent, but I personally don't think it's worthwhile or positive to waste time on it.

[McQ]

I think all of this is a little suspect, because it leaves out something important. Those who "switch sides".

What about religious people who embrace atheism. Do they suddenly become smarter and have their IQs raised? Doubt it. Smae with going the other way. Same thing with geniuses, especially those in MENSA, who believe really weird stuff.

It really has nothing to do with intelligence (IQ intelligence), as far as I can see. Maybe more with emotional intelligence, or even with having a dependent personality.

[SteveS]

I think the problem with simple correlations is that its hard to correctly deduce cause and effect.  If this correlation exists, and it seems it does, then is it because:

1) Religion tends to make one less intelligent

or

2) Intelligence tends to make one less religious

My own life experience makes be believe that option 2 is more realistic.  I perceive that intelligence makes a person more questioning, and more self-reliant in determining whether the answers to questions are true or not.  I think it makes one less reliant on appeals to authority, and more likely to question why the authority should be believed.  I think both these things work against the way religious faith is perpetuated.

So, rather than ask "Are religious people intrinsically less intelligent", maybe a better question is "Are intelligent people intrinsically less religious"?  Surely, even with a given religion, there is a variance in how strongly followers subscribe to every detail of the faith?  From the extremist "whole-sale" believers to the more philosophical ones?

[karadan]

So, rather than ask "Are religious people intrinsically less intelligent", maybe a better question is "Are intelligent people intrinsically less religious"?  Surely, even with a given religion, there is a variance in how strongly followers subscribe to every detail of the faith?  From the extremist "whole-sale" believers to the more philosophical ones?

Haha! Brilliant!

I've changed the title of this thread in honour of your fantastic observation.

Thanks.

[SteveS]

Thanks for the kind words, karadan.

[Will]

I think this video is quite appropriate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I5V9JPz ... re=related

The link between non-belief and intelligence seems quite strong.