Introduction & Spousal Issues

[NonBeliever]

Hi I'm Jennifer. I'm a Military wife and we have three kids. Because of my business, I'm a little freaked about "coming out" per say so I'm keeping personal info to a minimum until I am comfortable. I was brough up Baptist living with my piano/organist playing for Church granny and sometimes living with athiest Step Dad and either athiest or agnostic Mom. I was brainwashed as a child by my Grandmother who told me my Step Dad would be going to Hell and I believed it...at the time. More than 15 years and a short stomp at the local Catholic church with my Husband and our kids and even coming close to becoming Catholic-I'm glad it didn't happen.  got my hands slapped for missing too many of the classes and was not confirmed and I became bitter and decided I thought going to Church was stupid and a waste of my time. I'd rather be mountain biking. I also belong to another forum and  it was recently brought up so all this combined with really not knowing for sure I've gone from agnostic to athiest in days. I think it's all a fairy tale. I think people are naive for believing in something you can't see and believe out of fear. Living in the Bible Belt where billboards that display "Believe in Me or regret it forever" *Rollseyes* It's clearly not a choice for most, especially children. What child wouldn't say oh yes I want the free Bible their handing out if we walk to the front and tell the preacher I believe you  know? So now my Husband and I are getting into it everyday. He says I'm questioning his beliefs. He was raised Catholic-isn't practicing could care less about mass but I still find this sadness knowing he doesn't feel as I do. What can I do if anything? Spend time on here? Even more time spent of me going outside the marriage because it's yet another thing I can't share with him? H cuts me off, is short and says he can't tell me why he believes-just that he does. He says things like well how do you explain something like parents being told their daughter dyeing of a termincal illness had 3 weeks to live and then waking up one day totally cured. Um...not because of God ! It's hard to not cry and be really upset about this. We thought it could be a non issue but I'm throwing crap out hanging up in the kid's bedrooms with Bible verses and angels on it! I don't want my kids believeing in this or being brainwashed like I was. Thank you for your time and support!!!!


Jenn

[McQ]

Hi I'm Jennifer. I'm a Military wife and we have three kids. Because of my business, I'm a little freaked about "coming out" per say so I'm keeping personal info to a minimum until I am comfortable. I was brough up Baptist living with my piano/organist playing for Church granny and sometimes living with athiest Step Dad and either athiest or agnostic Mom. I was brainwashed as a child by my Grandmother who told me my Step Dad would be going to Hell and I believed it...at the time. More than 15 years and a short stomp at the local Catholic church with my Husband and our kids and even coming close to becoming Catholic-I'm glad it didn't happen.  got my hands slapped for missing too many of the classes and was not confirmed and I became bitter and decided I thought going to Church was stupid and a waste of my time. I'd rather be mountain biking. I also belong to another forum and  it was recently brought up so all this combined with really not knowing for sure I've gone from agnostic to athiest in days. I think it's all a fairy tale. I think people are naive for believing in something you can't see and believe out of fear. Living in the Bible Belt where billboards that display "Believe in Me or regret it forever" *Rollseyes* It's clearly not a choice for most, especially children. What child wouldn't say oh yes I want the free Bible their handing out if we walk to the front and tell the preacher I believe you  know? So now my Husband and I are getting into it everyday. He says I'm questioning his beliefs. He was raised Catholic-isn't practicing could care less about mass but I still find this sadness knowing he doesn't feel as I do. What can I do if anything? Spend time on here? Even more time spent of me going outside the marriage because it's yet another thing I can't share with him? H cuts me off, is short and says he can't tell me why he believes-just that he does. He says things like well how do you explain something like parents being told their daughter dyeing of a termincal illness had 3 weeks to live and then waking up one day totally cured. Um...not because of God ! It's hard to not cry and be really upset about this. We thought it could be a non issue but I'm throwing crap out hanging up in the kid's bedrooms with Bible verses and angels on it! I don't want my kids believeing in this or being brainwashed like I was. Thank you for your time and support!!!!


Jenn

Hi Jenn, and welcome to the forum. Thanks for the background. Your situation is similar to mine in many ways. Still trying hard to learn to live with all the differences in belief between my wife and myself. She's still in the catholic church, but we've been able to deal with some of the issues. Lots yet to deal with and I don't have all the answers.

But you bring up some good points, one of which is spending more time online trying to get help and support from cyber-friends while being pushed away from your relationships at home. Kind of a tough one.

Another is from the example you gave of your husband asking about how to explain "miracles". Problem is that most of the time, examples like the one he gave you are bogus; not real stories, but friend-of-a-friend tales, urban legends and such. But when people want to believe them, it's hard to help them see the reality.

Anyway, stick around, and feel free to share whatever you like. Lots of good folks here.

[Whitney]

welcome to the forum, Jenn.  

I've never been in your situation since my husband also doesn't beleive...however I can imagine how difficult it must be.  I have heard of people in similar situations that compromise by allowing the religious spouse to take the kids to church but also allowing the non-religious spouse to tell the kids why they don't believe and provide a more secular basis for ethics etc.  

If your husband isn't the church going type then the compromise may not be so bad...you could let him tell them about jesus as long as you are allowed to educate them about all sorts of other beliefs and non-beliefs.  but, as i said, i've never been in this situation for take my advice for what it is worth.

[rlrose328]

Hi I'm Jennifer.

<snip>

What can I do if anything? Spend time on here? Even more time spent of me going outside the marriage because it's yet another thing I can't share with him? H cuts me off, is short and says he can't tell me why he believes-just that he does. He says things like well how do you explain something like parents being told their daughter dyeing of a termincal illness had 3 weeks to live and then waking up one day totally cured. Um...not because of God ! It's hard to not cry and be really upset about this. We thought it could be a non issue but I'm throwing crap out hanging up in the kid's bedrooms with Bible verses and angels on it! I don't want my kids believeing in this or being brainwashed like I was. Thank you for your time and support!!!!

Jenn

Welcome, Jenn... glad to have you here.

I'm sorry you are in such a tight spot.  No, I don't think spending time online, even for support, is the answer for you.  We welcome questions and can give great support, but it's hard to justify time away from your family to talk with strangers about something as heavy as religion.

I'm sorry your husband is not willing to listen to reason and logic.  What kind of god would make a family suffer only to say, "just kidding" and heal them?  That's just cruel and mean!  How does he know that god didn't cause the cancer and satan (or other so-call negative force) didn't cure it?  He can't.  No one can.  Cancer has been known to go into spontaneous remission.  Yes, he can argue that it was god that caused it... but you can just as easily argue that it happened without cause or interference of any kind.  No one will ever know for sure and I prefer to rely on explanations I can explain, not those I can't.

Sounds like your husband relies on the god of the gaps... there are gaps in our knowledge and that means it must be god.  It makes no sense.

Find a book called, "Parenting Beyond Belief."  It may not help you with your husband, but it's a great resource for parents who wish to raise their children without religion.

I have a religious mom.  She read the bible to him when I'd visit when he was younger.  What we did here is read all kinds of mythologies to him.

I also got a book called, "In the Beginning:  Creation Stories from Around the World," which has been a wonderful gap-filling read because so many of the stories are from well BEFORE the Christian creation story, yet share many similarities.

Just keep reinforcing to your children the logical and reasonable explanations for things in this world, not contradicting their father.  The fight about religion is between you and him, not you and the children vs. him.  I know it's hard to not involve them, but they need information, not a tug-of-war over belief.

I will keep you in my thoughts!

[MommaSquid]

Hi, Jennifer.  Welcome to the forum.  We are a very supportive bunch so feel free to vent when you need to.

Try cutting your hubby some slack when he tells you he doesn't know why he believes.  You have had more time to think about your non-belief than he has and he may be in a bit of shock over your newfound atheism.  

Love is patient and kind (even if that phrase comes from the bible!) so give him time.  I hope you two can find common ground to stand on.

Until then, enjoy your time here at the forum.

[NonBeliever]

Thank you all so much for the warm welcome. I did order Parenting Without Belief but he has no desire to read books even though I said it's not just for Athiests! It might be here today along with the God Delusion. I am so pissed I just typed like a novel and erased it! ACK! Anyway, last night was not good at all and sometimes I don't see how we can be married with such difference beliefs. I changed a lot when we had kids. I discovered I had very strong feelings about things most people don't even think about...breastfeeding, homeschooling, vaccinations,etc. I'm not  your mainstream Mom. I'm one of those freaks as most would say it. I want to say things to him hoping I can make something click but he'd just get angry. I know it's hard to accept when you die that that is it but it's the truth! I'd love to believe the land of oz is a place I could go follow the yellow brick road on but truth is...it's all so stupid. Every example I've seen, heard or thought of I wish he could see from my point of view. Believe in the tooth fairy? That's no different! Whoever's idea it was to write some book filled with so many discrepancies and then start filling the world with churches so people can worship a character equivilent to Harry Potter or Santa is beyond me. I don't have a PhD or even a Bachelors(yet !) but I don't think it takes a degree in rocket science to see the truth. I saw the funniest thing ever and I needed the laugh when I saw a post on here of someone taking his Wife to the Christian bookstore for a Advent Calender and telling her something like, "If you can get me a free consulatation with Jesus if he's in the back let me know" LMAOOO!!!

[SteveS]

Hey NonBeliever --- welcome to the forum!  Sorry to hear about the different viewpoints - that's got to make it tough.  Marriage is hard enough as is normally!

My wife wanted to have our kids baptized, but I just didn't lift a finger to help.  I said "go ahead".  She didn't.  Its not so much that she's a believer about these things, more like a follower.  "What will the other parents think if we're not in church, if our kids weren't baptized, etc. etc. etc.".  I just don't care --- if they're going to judge me on that basis I'm going to be aloofly amused.

[ryanvc76]

Hi Jennifer, and welcome.  Hats off to you for being a military wife - not an easy task.  I was on active duty in the Army 12 years and still work for the Army now as a civilian.  I wish you luck with the spousal issues.  I can only imagine how it would be arguing such points with someone I love - ouch!  You love the person, but their beliefs cause you to question their intelligence; not a fun situation.  

My wife called herself protestant when we met - funny enough, she calls herself agnostic now.  I guess my ranting about how stupid religions are sunk in and made some sense to her.  Her father is atheist too though, so that helped I'm sure.

Best of luck and welcome to the forums!

[Kylyssa]

Welcome to the forum.  
I understand many of the difficulties of being married to a religious person.  I was married to a Lutheran for 11 years and our differing beliefs created a lot of friction.  There were a few times that he used my lack of belief in abusive ways - "of course morals mean nothing to you, etc, etc."   There was no getting him to believe I wasn't being hateful to him simply by being an atheist.

You are not alone.  Feel free to message me if you need someone to chat with.

[pagan1]

Hello NonBeliever!
Sounds like you have to take a step back,and try and look at things very objectively.Perhaps you could try and look for any points of belief that you still share in common,for eg. you may disagree with the fantasy that lies behind the church,but what about the morality?I am not saying that christians are morally superior,just that the ideals that jesus recommends are something that I think most humans would agree with.If you were to sit on top of that mountain with your bike and look at your situation,what would you see?With three kids there is certainly a lot at stake!

[searchingmind]

Hi Jennifer,
  I relate to your post as am also in a relationship with someone who is a Christian.  I actually ended my engagement to my ex who was in the military and an atheist.  I am lucky enough to have found someone now who, though he is under the delusion that Jesus died for our sins (I don't hold that against him), is willing to compromise and accept me for all that I am.  We have gotten into several religious discussions and I honestly think he is more accepting of my atheism than I am of his belief in God.  
   I think it is very hard for a person who believes that their children will be harmed if they are not brought up to believe in certain things (this goes for either theists or atheists).  For example, I would hate to have my children grow up to judge others and be intolerant of ANYone; gay, Christian, Buddhist, black, whatever.  In short, I think that any relationship comes down to mutual respect.  I have to be able to respect my partners beliefs even if they are different from mine.
  As far as raising children is concerned, I don't think that children are likely to be permanently scarred by your husband encouraging them to practice Christianity.  Like the analogy of believing in Santa until you are old enought to reason for yourself.  If the two of you as parents can be willing to respect each other, then you can allow your children to grow to believe whatever they want.  I know you said you were raised with a mother and stepfather who were not really beleivers, but both of my parents believe in God and I still grew up to question it and decide for myself.
   If you and your hubby can agree to disagree and then raise your kids with a reasonably open ground for discussion and thought then all will be well.  My own experience has taught me that no matter a person's religious ideaologies, if they are willing to let me speak and give me the same respect as anyone else, it doesn't matter if we have different opinions.
  I wish you the best of luck and hope you find peace with your problem.

[Death?]

hello nonbeliever, i wish u all the best

[Valerie]

I am married to someone who says he believes in God, but does absolutely nothing about it.  Doesn't go to church, doesn't pray, doesn't support any churches, etc. I think it's a case of Pascal's Wager, but even though I told him that many christians would say that he will go to hell anyway doesn't faze him. He doesn't however interfere with my views on atheism, or my reading material and I have actually caught him agreeing with me on many issues and contradictions that I can't help but mention sometimes, so there is hope for him.  My problem is with other people, friends and acquaintances who don't know that I am an atheist and who like to preach.  I can't bring myself to be honest with them.  I am moving soon though and when I get down south I have decided that any time I make new friends I am going to start by quickly telling them just to let them know so that if they have a problem with it, we can end it right then and there.  I can no longer live in the closet with this.  Good luck to you Jennifer, we all have to band together and be counted so that the world will see that atheists are good people too.  Better than most I might add.