Atheist behavior and negative connotations

[Sophie]

I've been thinking about this for awhile.  I see many younger atheists, and some older, having fun with the slamming on theists.  I am by NO means saying we shouldn't have fun.  What I am bringing up is the fact that playing pranks on theists to get back at them for giving us tracts and stuff is just reinforcing the horribly negative reputation atheists have.  When people think of atheists, they think of snide remarks, darwin fish on cars, and the fact that atheists consider religious people stupid and gullible.  

Maybe we should tone down the religion bashing.  I know that there are a lot of nut jobs out there that are nasty and antagonistic.  And most people that feel their religion is being attacked, pull out the "I'm being persecuted" flag.  I was thinking of buying those funny bumper stickers and t-shirts, but then I got to thinking.  What will people think when they read them.  Will they think, "Hm.  That does make me think about why I think the bible's the word of God." ??  No.  They'll most likely think, "those atheists have no respect for anyone but themselves.  They're all hateful and angry because they have unrepented sin in their lives.  They need the love of God."  See what I mean?  

Please share if you think I'm wrong, or if you have any other ideas/thoughts about it.  

Thanks!    

[tacoma_kyle]

I didnt ever know of 'atheist's' at all paying pranks on anyone or really being excessively rude in any way.

Certainly not in the way that we will readily get labeled 'heathens' on here when they just kinda stop by and say 'hi your goin to hell.


The shirt thing---I can see that. If it is overly aggressive. The most blasphemous one I have seen just said 'godless youth.' Which is about the only one. Nothin like 'god fuckin blows' or anything.

I though about making one with some ludicrous bible verse then 'See what I mean?' under it, but thats one of those things I will only try out if I get really really bored and have nothing I could possibly conceive I could spend money on other than.


Really it all comes down to there are always dicks in the world. Under a god or not. If you generalize on a group based off those apples? Well shows that your a dumb shit.

[McQ]

Many people seem interested in "tweaking" the noses of others. This is probably especially true in groups of people who feel persecuted or feel that they have an axe to grind against either the status quo or the "establishment".
This puts many atheists squarely in the category of people who may feel they need to be extra vocal, obnoxious, or dissident.

I find it sad that anyone feels the need to be particularly offensive in order to make a point. Many people try through satire, most fail horribly, because they can't do satire. Another forum I participated in was led by a guy who thought he wrote great satire against religion and religious people. Fact is, he sucks at satire and is just offensive. That turns me way off.

Atheists, in my opinion, should always take the high road in debate with religious people, and in action when in contact with religious people. I am not above poking fun at anyone, don't get me wrong. I love a good joke. But the low road doesn't win friends and influence people. Not in the long run. And atheists had better be in this for the long run!  

[Mister Joy]

I think that to a certain extent religious folk can go at it assuming that atheists are antisocial. So they end up having their views reinforced by those that are rude and simply forgetting the ones that aren't. Also, I think that atheists get a lot more trouble than theists in most parts of the world.

I do agree with you though, Sophie. One half of my brain does anyway. I don't think being actively confrontational is a good way to up the atheist reputation. However, the other half of my noggin can't help thinking "who cares what they think? If an atheist is rude to a theist and said theist then decides to typecast us all for it then fine, I honestly couldn't care less about the opinion of someone that ignorant." Also, it depends how you view T-shirts like the ones you mentioned. I would view them as expression of belief. Christians express their belief all the time - hanging crosses around their neck, yadda yadda - and it doesn't offend us, so why should we hide ours? Personally, I think it's because they're not so offended by our behaviour as they are by the actual concept of atheism itself. I think this is how it's often viewed: to deny God and attribute him to mass delusion or human compunction is, in itself, to disrespect and belittle religious belief. To advertise that you do this, rather than keeping it entirely to yourself with your head held low, is even more disrespectful.

[Sita]

I don’t see the need to be rude or offensive to believers.   I may not agree with someone’s beliefs but we all have to live here together so why not try and get along.  It’s one thing to have a discussion to help someone see your point of view but being rude and offensive is not going to win anyone over.  I was once one of those believers.

[JebusKryst]

I find it sad that anyone feels the need to be particularly offensive in order to make a point. Many people try through satire, most fail horribly, because they can't do satire. Another forum I participated in was led by a guy who thought he wrote great satire against religion and religious people. Fact is, he sucks at satire and is just offensive. That turns me way off.

I kinda agree with the points your making, but I still chuckle at religious satire. ( Someone sent me a link to the religious satire site http://www.kneelb4me.com/ which I always check for updates - very funny imo) I agree we shouldnt be rude to believers, but I cant help myself when being preached to - not rude, but very blunt, to the point and probably what they would consider a "typical athiest"
I refuse to pull any punches when people seriously tell me I'm in the wrong because I dont believe in Adam and  Eve.

[McQ]

I find it sad that anyone feels the need to be particularly offensive in order to make a point. Many people try through satire, most fail horribly, because they can't do satire. Another forum I participated in was led by a guy who thought he wrote great satire against religion and religious people. Fact is, he sucks at satire and is just offensive. That turns me way off.

I kinda agree with the points your making, but I still chuckle at religious satire. ( Someone sent me a link to the religious satire site http://www.kneelb4me.com/ which I always check for updates - very funny imo) I agree we shouldnt be rude to believers, but I cant help myself when being preached to - not rude, but very blunt, to the point and probably what they would consider a "typical athiest"
I refuse to pull any punches when people seriously tell me I'm in the wrong because I dont believe in Adam and  Eve.

Thanks for posting the link. I haven't read that site before. I'll have to take a look at it.

I love good satire, no matter what it is aimed at. I hate bad satire just the same though. Most people, even many very funny people, don't do it well. But those who do make it so worthwhile.

I think I'll go pop in a DVD....maybe....Brazil, or The Great Dictator, or Dr. Strangelove.....mmmmmm...good!

[Kona]

I don’t see the need to be rude or offensive to believers.   I may not agree with someone’s beliefs but we all have to live here together so why not try and get along.  It’s one thing to have a discussion to help someone see your point of view but being rude and offensive is not going to win anyone over.  I was once one of those believers.

I, too, was once one of those believers and one of my best friends in all the world still is.I understand what you are saying and I agree, but there are times when you have to have a little moxy.    Sometimes, believers need to be 'shocked' a little bit to get them out of their programmed religiosity so you can have a human conversation.  Personally, I like injecting a faux religion like Flying Spaghetti Monsterism into the conversation rather than just coming straight out as a god-hating unbeliever (errrr, atheist).  They really are caught off guard by this because they didn't read about FSM in their book of cults, so they don't have a programmed speeches or a roadmap to lead me away from the great FSM and to whatever they are peddling.  Mainly I'm thinking of all the door-to-door proselytizers, but it has implications for religious discussions in general.  Once they discover that you really don't worship satan, sacrifice virgins, or torture animals then they soften up a bit on the rhetoric.  I rarely go out of my way to initiate a religious discussion with believers, mostly I just respond to them in a reasoned manner avoiding personal attacks which just distract from the matter.  

As for 'getting along', remember that the 'religious right' does not want to 'get along' with non-believers until they have imposed their religious morality on all, chased Darwin out of the schools, and gutted the bill of rights (well, save for the 2nd amendment).  To quote the famous group of philosophers "The Beastie Boys": "You've got to fight..........for your right........... to PARRRRR-TAY!"  

 

[JebusKryst]

Mainly I'm thinking of all the door-to-door proselytizers, but it has implications for religious discussions in general. Once they discover that you really don't worship satan, sacrifice virgins, or torture animals then they soften up a bit on the rhetoric. I rarely go out of my way to initiate a religious discussion with believers, mostly I just respond to them in a reasoned manner avoiding personal attacks which just distract from the matter.

As a child I was a Door-to-door proselytizer - hated every minute of it, but had no choice. These days whenever they come calling on my door, I'll invite them in, offer tea or coffee, get them nice and comfortable, ask a few questions to get their juices running and once they think they've found a potential convert, I drop the pretense and let rip.

My wife thinks its rather childish of me, but it never fails to amuse me on a Saturday morning. Their Watchtower magazines are quite useful for lining the bottom of the cat litter tray too!

[Mister Joy]

As a child I was a Door-to-door proselytizer - hated every minute of it, but had no choice. These days whenever they come calling on my door, I'll invite them in, offer tea or coffee, get them nice and comfortable, ask a few questions to get their juices running and once they think they've found a potential convert, I drop the pretense and let rip.

My wife thinks its rather childish of me, but it never fails to amuse me on a Saturday morning. Their Watchtower magazines are quite useful for lining the bottom of the cat litter tray too!

Haha! Doing that can be a bit risky though. Our neighbours invited some in once for a polite chin-wag and now they turn up at their door ever other day. I feel sorry for them now because they've been backed into a corner and the only way they could possibly hope to get rid of them is to be rude: ie. "no you can't come in again because I'm sick of you. Go away." They're such nice people, though, that they just don't have it in them.

I think that's a blurry line to define in terms of not being aggressive with theists: sometimes they can take advantage of people's good nature.

[Sophie]

Haha!  JebusKryst and Mister Joy: the way my husband got rid of them was to invite them in and give them copies of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.  

Good points, all.    I love reading even the really snarky cartoons and satirical stuff.  I've just seen people with, as several of you said, an "axe to grind," who put that type of humor forward towards the religious people.  It's reassuring to see people here that don't see the extreme stuff much.

I think one reason I brought it up was because I'm not sure what I think of the milder stuff.  You're absolutely right that the Christians have their t-shirts, etc, etc, pushing their self-righteous pride of being a Christian.  When I was a teen, I had a tee shirt that said "Know God, Know peace.  No God, No peace."  There are a bazillion (yes, a technical term, :wink:) tee shirts and other wearable/put on your car media.  And don't get me started on those billboards!  (Speaking of which, I think it's cool that FFRF has two that they're circulating around the country, but I wish they'd used a catchier phrase.  One is a stained glass window with "Beware of Dogma."  Most people in the south probably don't have a clue what dogma is!)

[JebusKryst]

I agree they do tend to take advantage of peoples good nature. I guess they depend on it. I never find it difficult to get rid of them though. I normally tell them I'm disfellowshipped. (excommunicated) Even if they wanted to stay and chat, their rules forbid it.

Sophie, are people from the south really stupid? We dont have a geographical group of stupid people here in the UK - which is just as well because we have Manchester United supporters - and you dont get stupider than that!

[Ninja Donkey]

The way I see it is I don't bother them if they don't bother me.  However, should one come up to me and try and force something on me, I'll provide an equal amount of force in the opposite direction (Newton's Third Law of Motion!)

As far as t-shirts and bumper stickers; if they're allowed to wear their merch, I'm allowed to wear mine.  I just avoid being a dick about it.

Quick funny story about the door-to-door thumpers: My father answered the door one day and they asked "Do you know where you'll be when you die?" and he simply responded "Yes, six feet under and rotting" And he closed the door on them.  They never came back.

[McQ]

We dont have a geographical group of stupid people here in the UK - which is just as well because we have Manchester United supporters - and you dont get stupider than that!

What about all those people who file into St. James Park up in Newcastle?  

[Mister Joy]

I agree they do tend to take advantage of peoples good nature. I guess they depend on it. I never find it difficult to get rid of them though. I normally tell them I'm disfellowshipped. (excommunicated) Even if they wanted to stay and chat, their rules forbid it. . Happy times. Also, I think London could easily win first prize for The UK's Geographical Apex of Stupidity Competition. It's a horrible place. I've always thought of it as a separate country unto itself because it pretty much has it's very own culture... one that's so tacky and unsophisticated that you could have it mass produced and sold for 50p a piece in Toys 'r' Us.

Oh and that excommunication thing is a good idea and one that I shall remember. Using passive resistance to send them on their way! I like it.