Abortion Opinions

[DeterminedJuliet]

Personally, I don't care if a woman gets 30 abortions. It just seems like an inefficient way of managing your life/reproduction. Even if you aren't pregnant for very long, all of the hormonal changes can really screw you up -- and then you have to book a clinic appointment, possibly take some time off work, heal, etc. I just don't know why anyone would regularly choose this method unless they're just generally a person who doesn't have their shit together.

[En_Route]

Personally, I don't care if a woman gets 30 abortions. It just seems like an inefficient way of managing your life/reproduction. Even if you aren't pregnant for very long, all of the hormonal changes can really screw you up -- and then you have to book a clinic appointment, possibly take some time off work, heal, etc. I just don't know why anyone would regularly choose this method unless they're just generally a person who doesn't have their shit together.

I agree with all you say. I would add however that the number of people who don't have their shit together is not inconsequential.

[Ali]

I am pro-choice for many of the commonly mentioned reasons (supporting rape victims, no child should be forced into the world unwanted, ect.) and I fully advocate providing women legal and safe abortion options. Yet it saddens me to hear about women who use abortion as their only form of contraception, carrying out multiple abortions instead of using preventative birth control methods.  Late-term abortions also seem wrong. Even though I believe a person fully develops through nature/nurture, the thought of killing an ever more recognizable human being remains pretty personally upsetting.

I find it interesting that even those of us that are pro-choice always feel the need to put on the "I don't approve of using abortion as contraception" disclaimer.  I believe that this has been influenced by the arguments and myths put forth by the pro-life movement.  I have to think that the actual incidences of women who use abortion as a form of contraception is fairly low.  I can't imagine a sane woman who would choose to have an expensive and painful surgical procedure over and over again rather than using condoms or hormonal birth control.

I think it's fair enough to be saddened that some women are  reckless , someimes repeatedly reckless, about becoming pregnant, if only because of the harmful effects they may suffer. Such women do exist and they are usually quite sane. But I can't see why, if you are fully pro- choice ,the motivation or circumstances of the woman having the abortion matters.

I just don't think that women truly using "abortion as birth control" is so common that we always have to call it out.  I think that the suspicion "Women are using it as birth control!" is a seed planted by the pro-life movement to paint women who seek abortions as completely thoughtless and irresponsible.  Does it *ever* happen?  Probably.  There are exceptions to any rule.  I still balk at the idea that there are a mass of women out there actually using abortion as their primary form of birth control.

Per a decidedly biased source:

MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.

In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant.1 Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%).5 Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

[Amalthea]

I am pro-choice for many of the commonly mentioned reasons (supporting rape victims, no child should be forced into the world unwanted, ect.) and I fully advocate providing women legal and safe abortion options. Yet it saddens me to hear about women who use abortion as their only form of contraception, carrying out multiple abortions instead of using preventative birth control methods.  Late-term abortions also seem wrong. Even though I believe a person fully develops through nature/nurture, the thought of killing an ever more recognizable human being remains pretty personally upsetting.

I find it interesting that even those of us that are pro-choice always feel the need to put on the "I don't approve of using abortion as contraception" disclaimer.  I believe that this has been influenced by the arguments and myths put forth by the pro-life movement.  I have to think that the actual incidences of women who use abortion as a form of contraception is fairly low.  I can't imagine a sane woman who would choose to have an expensive and painful surgical procedure over and over again rather than using condoms or hormonal birth control.

I think it's fair enough to be saddened that some women are  reckless , someimes repeatedly reckless, about becoming pregnant, if only because of the harmful effects they may suffer. Such women do exist and they are usually quite sane. But I can't see why, if you are fully pro- choice ,the motivation or circumstances of the woman having the abortion matters.

I just don't think that women truly using "abortion as birth control" is so common that we always have to call it out.  I think that the suspicion "Women are using it as birth control!" is a seed planted by the pro-life movement to paint women who seek abortions as completely thoughtless and irresponsible.  Does it *ever* happen?  Probably.  There are exceptions to any rule.  I still balk at the idea that there are a mass of women out there actually using abortion as their primary form of birth control.

Per a decidedly biased source:

MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.

In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant.1 Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%).5 Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

No one here claimed that abortion is used by more than half of women as a primary method of birth control. I brought up the argument to question whether it is at all morally suspect to kill fetuses, and at what point a fetus becomes what we consider a human being. 

[Ali]

I am pro-choice for many of the commonly mentioned reasons (supporting rape victims, no child should be forced into the world unwanted, ect.) and I fully advocate providing women legal and safe abortion options. Yet it saddens me to hear about women who use abortion as their only form of contraception, carrying out multiple abortions instead of using preventative birth control methods.  Late-term abortions also seem wrong. Even though I believe a person fully develops through nature/nurture, the thought of killing an ever more recognizable human being remains pretty personally upsetting.

I find it interesting that even those of us that are pro-choice always feel the need to put on the "I don't approve of using abortion as contraception" disclaimer.  I believe that this has been influenced by the arguments and myths put forth by the pro-life movement.  I have to think that the actual incidences of women who use abortion as a form of contraception is fairly low.  I can't imagine a sane woman who would choose to have an expensive and painful surgical procedure over and over again rather than using condoms or hormonal birth control.

I think it's fair enough to be saddened that some women are  reckless , someimes repeatedly reckless, about becoming pregnant, if only because of the harmful effects they may suffer. Such women do exist and they are usually quite sane. But I can't see why, if you are fully pro- choice ,the motivation or circumstances of the woman having the abortion matters.

I just don't think that women truly using "abortion as birth control" is so common that we always have to call it out.  I think that the suspicion "Women are using it as birth control!" is a seed planted by the pro-life movement to paint women who seek abortions as completely thoughtless and irresponsible.  Does it *ever* happen?  Probably.  There are exceptions to any rule.  I still balk at the idea that there are a mass of women out there actually using abortion as their primary form of birth control.

Per a decidedly biased source:

MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.

In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant.1 Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%).5 Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

No one here claimed that abortion is used by more than half of women as a primary method of birth control. I brought up the argument to question whether it is at all morally suspect to kill fetuses, and at what point a fetus becomes what we consider a human being. 

How does the argument that one could use it as birth control if one were willing (and could afford) to submit her body to multiple surgeries every year (and also the hormonal upheavals that follow being pregnant and then not pregnant) add or detract from the "morality" of abortion?

[En_Route]

I am pro-choice for many of the commonly mentioned reasons (supporting rape victims, no child should be forced into the world unwanted, ect.) and I fully advocate providing women legal and safe abortion options. Yet it saddens me to hear about women who use abortion as their only form of contraception, carrying out multiple abortions instead of using preventative birth control methods.  Late-term abortions also seem wrong. Even though I believe a person fully develops through nature/nurture, the thought of killing an ever more recognizable human being remains pretty personally upsetting.

I find it interesting that even those of us that are pro-choice always feel the need to put on the "I don't approve of using abortion as contraception" disclaimer.  I believe that this has been influenced by the arguments and myths put forth by the pro-life movement.  I have to think that the actual incidences of women who use abortion as a form of contraception is fairly low.  I can't imagine a sane woman who would choose to have an expensive and painful surgical procedure over and over again rather than using condoms or hormonal birth control.

I think it's fair enough to be saddened that some women are  reckless , someimes repeatedly reckless, about becoming pregnant, if only because of the harmful effects they may suffer. Such women do exist and they are usually quite sane. But I can't see why, if you are fully pro- choice ,the motivation or circumstances of the woman having the abortion matters.

I just don't think that women truly using "abortion as birth control" is so common that we always have to call it out.  I think that the suspicion "Women are using it as birth control!" is a seed planted by the pro-life movement to paint women who seek abortions as completely thoughtless and irresponsible.  Does it *ever* happen?  Probably.  There are exceptions to any rule.  I still balk at the idea that there are a mass of women out there actually using abortion as their primary form of birth control.

Per a decidedly biased source:

MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.

In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant.1 Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%).5 Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

No one here claimed that abortion is used by more than half of women as a primary method of birth control. I brought up the argument to question whether it is at all morally suspect to kill fetuses, and at what point a fetus becomes what we consider a human being.  

It seemed to me you were raising two  separate and distinct points, firstly, about feeling it was " wrong" for women to use abortion as a contraceptive and  secondly that it was also "wrong" to terminate late- term pregnancies. As far as I could see, both propositions were based on gut instinct.

[En_Route]

The demarcation line between foetus and human being is arbitrary. For me I prefer to live in a society where women are not coerced into giving birth against their will because I think a society which puts a premium on individual liberty and consent is healthier and more conducive to human happiness. If all the women in the world decided that multiple abortions were the best form of contraception this clearly would have no bearing on my analysis.

[Sweetdeath]

Oooh boy, i go way for one night and this is what i come back to. 

Amalthea:

It really does not matter at what point -you- consider a fetus alive or not. We have established that a fetus is part of a mother/woman and ultimately it is her choice to abort.

Now, this is just a sad story if you actually believe women don't choose abortions unless they truly must. Whatever the reason, a woman has the RIGHT to choose. I don't care how many times she does make a choice; it remains hers and NO ONE elses. It truly makes me sick that someone can judge and disapprove what a woman does without even knowing her or what's going through her mind.

I don't encourage nor discourage abortions. I feel it's their choice, and who the fuck am i to tell her no or judge her? This world is already over popluated, and more than likely she wasn't mentally or finanically ready. I watch my a good friend raise a 3yr old child. i think she does think sometimes ' what if   i aborted?'

she has no job and no one to support her. it's a sad and really miserable life.
(disclaimer: nothing at all against single parents. its tough. i respect anyone for their choices.)

shit happens, who are you to tell them abortion is murder or some other ancient world thinking? I support choice, because raising a human being is difficult and once they are born, you are always going to raise them. (it's like an unbreakable bond for most people.)


I choose not to have children, but look in awe who people who make such a huge sacrifice . Not for me, but definitely a tough 24/7 job, i bet.

sorry for mini-rant >> it's 5am

[Stevil]

It really does not matter at what point -you- consider a fetus alive or not. We have established that a fetus is part of a mother/woman and ultimately it is her choice to abort.

I consider the fetus to be a person, a human and abortion to be murder.
But so what, who cares?
It seems we aren't inspired to use force against a woman choosing to kill her unborn.

If it doesn't harm me, and it doesn't make society unsafe for me, then I have no say on the matter. I will not enpower a government to make decisions on behalf of the mother. It is her choice. There are no consequences of this murder other then in the mind of the mother. Her problem, her choice.

[Sweetdeath]

It really does not matter at what point -you- consider a fetus alive or not. We have established that a fetus is part of a mother/woman and ultimately it is her choice to abort.

I consider the fetus to be a person, a human and abortion to be murder.
But so what, who cares?
It seems we aren't inspired to use force against a woman choosing to kill her unborn.

If it doesn't harm me, and it doesn't make society unsafe for me, then I have no say on the matter. I will not enpower a government to make decisions on behalf of the mother. It is her choice. There are no consequences of this murder other then in the mind of the mother. Her problem, her choice.

I really hate when people use the words 'murder'. It's a nice way to make a probably already scared woman feel guilty and ashamed.

[En_Route]

It really does not matter at what point -you- consider a fetus alive or not. We have established that a fetus is part of a mother/woman and ultimately it is her choice to abort.

I consider the fetus to be a person, a human and abortion to be murder.
But so what, who cares?
It seems we aren't inspired to use force against a woman choosing to kill her unborn.

If it doesn't harm me, and it doesn't make society unsafe for me, then I have no say on the matter. I will not enpower a government to make decisions on behalf of the mother. It is her choice. There are no consequences of this murder other then in the mind of the mother. Her problem, her choice.

I really hate when people use the words 'murder'. It's a nice way to make a probably already scared woman feel guilty and ashamed.

I agree. Murder is a recognisable legal concept. Surprisingly, Stevil seems to be using it in a judgemental, moralistic sense.

[Stevil]

I agree. Murder is a recognisable legal concept. Surprisingly, Stevil seems to be using it in a judgemental, moralistic sense.

You are making an assumption that i consider murder to be wrong.
I don't.
I see no reason to dance around the fact that abortion is the willful killing of a human life.
Of course I wouldn't rub this in the face of a woman who is taking action towards this path. It is none of my business.

[Stevil]

But, yeah, I'm not using the term "murder" in its strictest term. I'm not considering the "against the law" aspect. Just in the sense that a person is being put to death by the premeditated and wilful act of another person.

[Sweetdeath]

I agree. Murder is a recognisable legal concept. Surprisingly, Stevil seems to be using it in a judgemental, moralistic sense.

You are making an assumption that i consider murder to be wrong.
I don't.
I see no reason to dance around the fact that abortion is the willful killing of a human life.
Of course I wouldn't rub this in the face of a woman who is taking action towards this path. It is none of my business.

LOL Ok, then that's different. 

[The Magic Pudding]

I wouldn't call abortion murder, it's more like choosing not to save a potential person by going through months of discomfort, pain, distortion of your body and financial cost.

Is there a you've sinned so you should suffer element?

Evolution has given us a fear of death which keeps many of us toiling away through hard times.  I think it's a bit of a trick that's been played on us, some lives seem pretty squalid or painful to me but people cling to them.  Life is a gift I suppose but not necessarily welcomed by those who receive it.  The same people who don't like abortion probably also argue against voluntary euthanasia, promote the sacred crap and disregard suffering.  I don't see a fetus as much of a life, much less aware than many animals I've eaten.  A life probably with less than mouse awareness can be ended, if not it may go on to be a human suffer and frolic but it will die eventually, probably in pain, possibly in fear.

If society fitted my utopian ideal and we weren't already overpopulated I might be a little more inclined to encourage a woman to have a child.  Alas the world isn't an overwhelmingly positive place so I suggest the pro lifers improve it a bit by applying their values to their lives and let others do the same.