Richard Dawkins Supports Bibles in Schools

AnimatedDirt · May 22, 2012, 05:43:14 PM

QuoteWorld-renowned atheist Richard Dawkins says he supports the mission of England's Department for Education to make sure every public school in the nation has a copy of the 1611 translation of the King James Bible.

QuoteBut Dawkins is backing the distribution plan, albeit with an "ulterior motive."

"I have an ulterior motive for wishing to contribute to Gove's scheme," he wrote. "People who do not know the Bible well have been gulled into thinking it is a good guide to morality ... I have even heard the cynically misanthropic opinion that, without the Bible as a moral compass, people would have no restraint against murder, theft and mayhem. The surest way to disabuse yourself of this pernicious falsehood is to read the Bible itself."

Atheist Richard Dawkins Supports Bibles in Schools

Interesting. Many Christians believe that if one simply reads the bible, one can and many have been converted.

Could it backfire on RD? I think both are correct.

OldGit · May 22, 2012, 07:15:32 PM

I often think that Dawkins lacks common sense.

Recusant · May 22, 2012, 07:51:49 PM

Those who wish to read what Professor Dawkins actually wrote in full can find the article on The Guardian's site.

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 22, 2012, 05:43:14 PMMany Christians believe that if one simply reads the bible, one can and many have been converted.

On the other hand, you've been here long enough to have seen at least a few people who've come here and said that reading the Bible was the beginning of their journey away from Christianity. It might be difficult to find good evidence one way or the other, but we can be sure that there is no predictable outcome for those who take the time to read it (not that many of the students in these schools will be doing so voluntarily).

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 22, 2012, 05:43:14 PMCould it backfire on RD? I think both are correct.

I'm not sure what you mean by "backfire," but I don't think that Dawkins has much to worry about, in regards to this initiative. I believe that he was sincere in his praise of the King James Bible as literature.

AnimatedDirt · May 22, 2012, 09:15:44 PM

Quote from: Recusant on May 22, 2012, 07:51:49 PM
Those who wish to read what Professor Dawkins actually wrote in full can find the article on The Guardian's site.

I expected nothing less from RD on the matter.

Quote from: RecusantOn the other hand, you've been here long enough to have seen at least a few people who've come here and said that reading the Bible was the beginning of their journey away from Christianity. It might be difficult to find good evidence one way or the other, but we can be sure that there is no predictable outcome for those who take the time to read it (not that many of the students in these schools will be doing so voluntarily).

Of course. The only thing I'm saying is that most Christians claim that if one would only read the bible, there's a good chance for a conversion, if not certain...not that it's a fact.

Quote from: RecusantI'm not sure what you mean by "backfire," but I don't think that Dawkins has much to worry about, in regards to this initiative. I believe that he was sincere in his praise of the King James Bible as literature.

Backfire only in that it become similar to the tale of Joseph.

Asmodean · May 22, 2012, 09:30:24 PM

Personal experience: Was atheist. Read Bible. Thought "Crap." Remained atheist. Read the Qur'an. Thought "Crap." Remained atheist. Still atheist.

AnimatedDirt · May 22, 2012, 09:44:56 PM

Quote from: Asmodean on May 22, 2012, 09:30:24 PM
Personal experience: Was atheist. Read Bible. Thought "Crap." Remained atheist. Read the Qur'an. Thought "Crap." Remained atheist. Still atheist.

Got it.

No one made the claim that it is absolute. It's just the general thinking of Christians...and not necessarily mine.

Recusant · May 22, 2012, 09:47:23 PM

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 22, 2012, 09:15:44 PM
Quote from: Recusant on May 22, 2012, 07:51:49 PMI'm not sure what you mean by "backfire," but I don't think that Dawkins has much to worry about, in regards to this initiative. I believe that he was sincere in his praise of the King James Bible as literature.

Backfire only in that it become similar to the tale of Joseph.

Assuming that you refer here to the story in the later chapters of Genesis, I'll admit that I don't see its relevance. I'm mildly intrigued though. What (or who) is the place-holder for the Bible in this story? Who might be thought to represent Dawkins?

Asmodean · May 22, 2012, 09:56:18 PM

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 22, 2012, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 22, 2012, 09:30:24 PM
Personal experience: Was atheist. Read Bible. Thought "Crap." Remained atheist. Read the Qur'an. Thought "Crap." Remained atheist. Still atheist.

Got it.

No one made the claim that it is absolute. It's just the general thinking of Christians...and not necessarily mine.

Oh, I understand. On occasion, I have been asked how it was possible for someone who has read the Book(tm) not to have let YHWH/Jesus/Allah into their soul. Applies to both books, really.

The short answer is that I have not let them into my "soul" because I have none. The long answer is that fictional characters from ancient fables just don't interest me all that much.

AnimatedDirt · May 22, 2012, 10:16:08 PM

Quote from: Recusant on May 22, 2012, 09:47:23 PM
Assuming that you refer here to the story in the later chapters of Genesis, I'll admit that I don't see its relevance. I'm mildly intrigued though. What (or who) is the place-holder for the Bible in this story? Who might be thought to represent Dawkins?

No specific character attributed to RD, however the gist being what the brothers did tp their brother, was turned to everyone's benefit.

What may seem as something to showcase simple literature, may do much more. Who knows.

Sweetdeath · May 23, 2012, 05:51:15 AM

I wish more people would actually read the bible and see what a piece of crap fiction it is. It isnt even well written fiction.

Sandra Craft · May 23, 2012, 07:17:42 AM

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 22, 2012, 09:15:44 PM
Of course. The only thing I'm saying is that most Christians claim that if one would only read the bible, there's a good chance for a conversion, if not certain...not that it's a fact.

I think that's just another thing some Xtians say to convince themselves that their book is magic. I knew a guy once absolutely refused to believe I'd read the bible because if I had I'd have instantly turned Xtian. In fact, I've read it twice and most of the ex-theists or ex-trying-to-be-theists I know got their ex- status after reading the bible from cover to cover. I encourage everyone to read it, and I'm all for the bible being taught as literature in public schools.

En_Route · May 23, 2012, 11:09:00 AM

Quote from: OldGit on May 22, 2012, 07:15:32 PM
I often think that Dawkins lacks common sense.

He takes himself terribly seriously and whatever his intellectual gifts is seriousl deficient in the social and emotional intelligence stakes. His aggression and condescension have probably alienated rather than attracted sympathy for the atheist cause.

history_geek · May 23, 2012, 11:13:58 AM

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 23, 2012, 07:17:42 AMI'm all for the bible being taught as literature in public schools.

I fully agree. On the condition that they examine all of the bible, not just goody goody bits...

markmcdaniel · May 23, 2012, 11:32:06 AM

This is pretty much what I would expect from Dawkins. As for reading the Bible it was Mark Twain who said "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible".

DeterminedJuliet · May 23, 2012, 01:54:17 PM

I don't have a problem with children or schools having access to any religious text. I wouldn't want teachers to teach that everything in the bible is literally true, but it's useful for understanding inter-textual references in a lot of works. The bible is something that gets referenced a lot.

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Richard Dawkins Supports Bibles in Schools