Hi everyone,
I've poking around the internet for a place to explore this atheist side of me, and liked your mission statement. So hello!
I live in Massachusetts and have been agnostic as long as I can remember. I was raised Jewish, but my whole family is secular, even my grandparents, so it's always been more about the culture than the religion. When my wife and I renewed our wedding vows (we had to get married quickly, long story) , we chose an ethical humanist celebrant to oversee the ceremony, as this was the closest representation of our views on religion and morality. It was also our first exposure to the ethical humanist movement.
Most of my life, I just thought of myself as agnostic and apathetic to the whole idea of organized religion. But I've been very bothered by the direction the country has taken in the past 10 years, and I feel a need to push back and show that some of us do feel uncomfortable with the constant vilification of secularism. I don't like the constant mixing of religion in politics, the expectation that politicians must wear their religion on their sleeve, how said religion must be Christian-based, and how that can lead to discrimination against people for not sharing those beliefs. Etc. So I find myself looking for a community that shares these ideals.
One thing I do question, and would like to posit to all of you, is the term "atheist". Much of what I've read says that agnostics doubt the presence of a higher being but don't know, but atheists don't believe in one at all. Based on that definition, I've always considered myself more of an agnostic, but I find myself leaning more into the atheist camp of. I wonder if this definition is really accurate, however, and would like to know how you all view the idea of atheism. If you've already discussed this elsewhere, forgive me, as I've only started poking around this forum today :)
Look forward to fun and interesting discussions with all of you.
Hi Firebird! Great minds think alike - I just joined today as well.
I, too, considered myself an agnostic from as young an age as I can remember. Even as a kid it never made sense to me. In my experience I think I was afraid to admit to myself I didn't believe. Even though I did not grow up in a religious household, God has a way of seeping into the daily American routine, so I think I was a little brainwashed to believe there was a God.
When I finally accepted the fact that I truly, truly think religion is absolute nonsense for a thousand reasons, I knew I could finally identify myself as an atheist. I mean, not out loud of course. Just to myself. Shh.
It was actually kind of liberating - even if just to myself.
Hello and welcome to HAF,
Firebird. Many atheists these days prefer to identify themselves as people who are "lacking a belief in a god or gods" rather than holding an overt belief that there are no gods. As you might imagine, since this is not precisely the definition of the word "atheist" you will find in many dictionaries, discussion (sometimes heated) can arise on the topic. Regarding agnosticism, that relates to holding a position on knowledge rather than on belief. So there are atheistic agnostics and theistic agnostics. An attempt was made by Richard Dawkins to create a more nuanced approach which acknowledges the fact that the basic labels are inadequate; this is discussed in a thread here (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8025.0). As mentioned below, you will have to wait until you've made ten posts here at HAF before you can dive into topics such as this.
QuoteNotes for new members from Tank.
The Rules. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0)
Users who comply with forum rules will graduate to full membership after 10 posts. Till that time your ability to post is limited to the "Getting to Know You" (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php#2) section of the forum. It is our hope that this small restriction improves the overall atmosphere of HAF.
Some threads you might find interesting.
Where did you get your username from? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0)
10 Things About Yourself (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0)
Tell us A Bit About Where You're From (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8215.0)
Photography (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)
Non-religious pet peeves (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6917.0)
Pets...what do you have? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0)
How to tell your family you are an atheist. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5111.0)*
*You will need 10 posts before you can add a post to this thread, but you can read it at any time.
In addition, you may find the following of interest: "Rules for Conducting a Discussion" by Dr. Mortimer J. Adler (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5631.0).
I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg830.imageshack.us%2Fimg830%2F860%2Fsmilew.gif&hash=8238eab24d16418eb1c8cd60d971239ab1363c74)
Hi Firebird
Welcom to HAF ;D
Regards
Chris
Welcome!
Recusant said basically everything I wanted to say on how I interpret the distinction between 'agnostic' and 'atheist', and that it isn't incompatible to be both, for neither atheists or theists.
Hello and welcome!!! ;D
QuoteI've been very bothered by the direction the country has taken in the past 10 years, and I feel a need to push back and show that some of us do feel uncomfortable with the constant vilification of secularism. I don't like the constant mixing of religion in politics, the expectation that politicians must wear their religion on their sleeve, how said religion must be Christian-based, and how that can lead to discrimination against people for not sharing those beliefs.
Ditto here. I had taken a break from the boards for a year or two and came back because of these concerns. I'm an artist, and have mostly created things that I've found beautiful. I just awoke this morning with several ideas on challenging these very issues. Scary stuff, to put those thoughts out there in this climate, but we'll see what comes out of it.
I was raised "christian" (even though my parents NEVER took me to church, they just told me that they are christian so i assumed the role as christian) but as I began to get out of that mentality, I doubted that there was any god altogether, instead of it just not being the christian god. I figured that if the christian god isn't real, than none is. I still don't deny that there is a possibility that there is a "god" because it is unfalsifiable, but I would still bet my entire life salary at the end of my days that there is no god.
Im kind of at the same place you are ...that is, how can an Atheist absolutely know with all certainty that the absolute declaration that 'There is no God (creator)' be true ? Because our finite minds have limited knowledge, it would seem that we cant reach that point conclusively .
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 03:39:03 PM
Im kind of at the same place you are ...that is, how can an Atheist absolutely know with all certainty that the absolute declaration that 'There is no God (creator)' be true ? Because our finite minds have limited knowledge, it would seem that we cant reach that point conclusively .
That's the definition of an agnostic atheist. The word atheist has to do with belief. I believe there is no god. Or, I don't believe in god. The word agnostic has to do with knowledge. I can't know whether god exists. So you can actually be an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist, technically. If you don't have a god belief then you are an atheist, whether we can know the truth or not. ;) If you claim knowledge that god doesn't exist, then you're a strong atheist. If you don't claim that knowledge, but only the belief, then you're a weak or agnostic atheist.
The other thing to think about with respect to knowledge is, at what point is our information so strong that it might as well be the truth. Some philosophers will tell you that nothing is actually real. I can wrap my mind around the concept, but its so unlikely that for all intents and purposes I consider reality to be real. Ditto, for me, with the Abrahamic gods. I consider it so incredibly unlikely, that I consider it, for all practical purposes, impossible that he exists, so I am a strong atheist with respect to those concepts. Other gods or concepts that people might consider a greater being or higher power or whatever? I give them a slightly larger possiblity, so with respect to those I consider myself an agnostic atheist.
Quote from: Traveler on January 07, 2012, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 03:39:03 PM
Im kind of at the same place you are ...that is, how can an Atheist absolutely know with all certainty that the absolute declaration that 'There is no God (creator)' be true ? Because our finite minds have limited knowledge, it would seem that we cant reach that point conclusively .
That's the definition of an agnostic atheist. The word atheist has to do with belief. I believe there is no god. Or, I don't believe in god. The word agnostic has to do with knowledge. I can't know whether god exists. So you can actually be an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist, technically. If you don't have a god belief then you are an atheist, whether we can know the truth or not. ;) If you claim knowledge that god doesn't exist, then you're a strong atheist. If you don't claim that knowledge, but only the belief, then you're a weak or agnostic atheist.
The other thing to think about with respect to knowledge is, at what point is our information so strong that it might as well be the truth. Some philosophers will tell you that nothing is actually real. I can wrap my mind around the concept, but its so unlikely that for all intents and purposes I consider reality to be real. Ditto, for me, with the Abrahamic gods. I consider it so incredibly unlikely, that I consider it, for all practical purposes, impossible that he exists, so I am a strong atheist with respect to those concepts. Other gods or concepts that people might consider a greater being or higher power or whatever? I give them a slightly larger possiblity, so with respect to those I consider myself an agnostic atheist.
If atheism is about belief (in no God existing) , then doesnt that position automatically default toward some sort of an affirmative belief for the Cause of the Universe and for the cause of all this scientifcally confirmed complexity we see in the many things around us ... since we ARE really here and there really ARE highly organized complex things we commonly detect and refer to as design and engineering ?
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Traveler on January 07, 2012, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 03:39:03 PM
Im kind of at the same place you are ...that is, how can an Atheist absolutely know with all certainty that the absolute declaration that 'There is no God (creator)' be true ? Because our finite minds have limited knowledge, it would seem that we cant reach that point conclusively .
That's the definition of an agnostic atheist. The word atheist has to do with belief. I believe there is no god. Or, I don't believe in god. The word agnostic has to do with knowledge. I can't know whether god exists. So you can actually be an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist, technically. If you don't have a god belief then you are an atheist, whether we can know the truth or not. ;) If you claim knowledge that god doesn't exist, then you're a strong atheist. If you don't claim that knowledge, but only the belief, then you're a weak or agnostic atheist.
The other thing to think about with respect to knowledge is, at what point is our information so strong that it might as well be the truth. Some philosophers will tell you that nothing is actually real. I can wrap my mind around the concept, but its so unlikely that for all intents and purposes I consider reality to be real. Ditto, for me, with the Abrahamic gods. I consider it so incredibly unlikely, that I consider it, for all practical purposes, impossible that he exists, so I am a strong atheist with respect to those concepts. Other gods or concepts that people might consider a greater being or higher power or whatever? I give them a slightly larger possiblity, so with respect to those I consider myself an agnostic atheist.
If atheism is about belief (in no God existing) , then doesnt that position automatically default toward some sort of an affirmative belief for the Cause of the Universe and for the cause of all this scientifcally confirmed complexity we see in the many things around us ... since we ARE really here and there really ARE highly organized complex things we commonly detect and refer to as design and engineering ?
Strike 2
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 04:42:33 PM
If atheism is about belief (in no God existing) , then doesnt that position automatically default toward some sort of an affirmative belief for the Cause of the Universe and for the cause of all this scientifcally confirmed complexity we see in the many things around us ... since we ARE really here and there really ARE highly organized complex things we commonly detect and refer to as design and engineering ?
No, of course not. All atheism is the lack of a god belief. It doesn't say anything else about anything else.
Speaking for myself, I have no clue how everything began. And I think that at this stage of our knowledge as a species, we're highly unlikely to know during my lifetime. There are lots of theories bouncing around, and people are exploring new ideas every day. But to grasp onto an idea and spout it as the truth is, in my not-so-humble opinion, absurdly arrogant. We can't know. Period. End of sentence. Anyone who claims absolute knowledge of how the universe began is either deluded or lying.
Quote from: Traveler on January 07, 2012, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 04:42:33 PM
If atheism is about belief (in no God existing) , then doesnt that position automatically default toward some sort of an affirmative belief for the Cause of the Universe and for the cause of all this scientifcally confirmed complexity we see in the many things around us ... since we ARE really here and there really ARE highly organized complex things we commonly detect and refer to as design and engineering ?
No, of course not. All atheism is the lack of a god belief. It doesn't say anything else about anything else.
Speaking for myself, I have no clue how everything began. And I think that at this stage of our knowledge as a species, we're highly unlikely to know during my lifetime. There are lots of theories bouncing around, and people are exploring new ideas every day. But to grasp onto an idea and spout it as the truth is, in my not-so-humble opinion, absurdly arrogant. We can't know. Period. End of sentence. Anyone who claims absolute knowledge of how the universe began is either deluded or lying.
I understand Humanism is atheistic and according to the Free Inquiry (the Humanist offical magazine), naturalism and materialism are the components which are expressed as the Cause ; if not all Atheists hold to Humanism, then what other Causations do they see as possibilities ? I guess im asking can someone be an Atheist yet take a strong affirmative position for how the Cosmos DID originate ? Lastly, is there a logical deduction that can be made for an atheistic worldview based on the current science that we have ,or, is that not possible because science is always refining itself as time goes on ? Thanks.
You got some good posts in reply Firebird. I'm curious, what's your response.
Quote from: Tank on January 07, 2012, 04:47:09 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Traveler on January 07, 2012, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 03:39:03 PM
Im kind of at the same place you are ...that is, how can an Atheist absolutely know with all certainty that the absolute declaration that 'There is no God (creator)' be true ? Because our finite minds have limited knowledge, it would seem that we cant reach that point conclusively .
That's the definition of an agnostic atheist. The word atheist has to do with belief. I believe there is no god. Or, I don't believe in god. The word agnostic has to do with knowledge. I can't know whether god exists. So you can actually be an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist, technically. If you don't have a god belief then you are an atheist, whether we can know the truth or not. ;) If you claim knowledge that god doesn't exist, then you're a strong atheist. If you don't claim that knowledge, but only the belief, then you're a weak or agnostic atheist.
The other thing to think about with respect to knowledge is, at what point is our information so strong that it might as well be the truth. Some philosophers will tell you that nothing is actually real. I can wrap my mind around the concept, but its so unlikely that for all intents and purposes I consider reality to be real. Ditto, for me, with the Abrahamic gods. I consider it so incredibly unlikely, that I consider it, for all practical purposes, impossible that he exists, so I am a strong atheist with respect to those concepts. Other gods or concepts that people might consider a greater being or higher power or whatever? I give them a slightly larger possiblity, so with respect to those I consider myself an agnostic atheist.
If atheism is about belief (in no God existing) , then doesnt that position automatically default toward some sort of an affirmative belief for the Cause of the Universe and for the cause of all this scientifcally confirmed complexity we see in the many things around us ... since we ARE really here and there really ARE highly organized complex things we commonly detect and refer to as design and engineering ?
Strike 2
Starting to see the O.C.D. arise .... lol...
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 11:02:20 PM
...I guess im asking can someone be an Atheist yet take a strong affirmative position for how the Cosmos DID originate ?
The only honest answer to this question is "we don't know." We can guess, we can postulate, we can theorize. But no ones knows. No one. Not you, not me, not the most brilliant scientist on the planet, not the most wise religious leader. All anyone can do is keep asking questions and keep looking.
QuoteLastly, is there a logical deduction that can be made for an atheistic worldview based on the current science that we have ,or, is that not possible because science is always refining itself as time goes on ? Thanks.
You're missing the point. All atheism is is the lack of a god belief. Individuals can have all kinds of varying world views. There is no single atheistic world view.
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 03:39:03 PM
Im kind of at the same place you are ...that is, how can an Atheist absolutely know with all certainty that the absolute declaration that 'There is no God (creator)' be true ? Because our finite minds have limited knowledge, it would seem that we cant reach that point conclusively .
I'm not sure all that many atheists say that -- even Richard Dawkins is a 6 on the Dawkins scale. The usual atheist stance is that we don't know, and neither does anyone else no matter what they believe. The inability to prove a negative (god does not exist) does not automatically mean the opposite is proven. It's simply unknown and probably unknowable. Most atheists you'll meet are comfortable with that, it's Xtians who usually freak out over not having an absolute answer.
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 11:02:20 PM
Quote from: Traveler on January 07, 2012, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 04:42:33 PM
If atheism is about belief (in no God existing) , then doesnt that position automatically default toward some sort of an affirmative belief for the Cause of the Universe and for the cause of all this scientifcally confirmed complexity we see in the many things around us ... since we ARE really here and there really ARE highly organized complex things we commonly detect and refer to as design and engineering ?
No, of course not. All atheism is the lack of a god belief. It doesn't say anything else about anything else.
Speaking for myself, I have no clue how everything began. And I think that at this stage of our knowledge as a species, we're highly unlikely to know during my lifetime. There are lots of theories bouncing around, and people are exploring new ideas every day. But to grasp onto an idea and spout it as the truth is, in my not-so-humble opinion, absurdly arrogant. We can't know. Period. End of sentence. Anyone who claims absolute knowledge of how the universe began is either deluded or lying.
I understand Humanism is atheistic and according to the Free Inquiry (the Humanist offical magazine), naturalism and materialism are the components which are expressed as the Cause ; if not all Atheists hold to Humanism, then what other Causations do they see as possibilities ? I guess im asking can someone be an Atheist yet take a strong affirmative position for how the Cosmos DID originate ? Lastly, is there a logical deduction that can be made for an atheistic worldview based on the current science that we have ,or, is that not possible because science is always refining itself as time goes on ? Thanks.
So....when you said you were "raised atheist" you were lying? I'd think someone who was actually raised under that label would at least know some of the basics.
I think Tank's spidey sense might have been on track...
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 07, 2012, 04:42:33 PM
I understand Humanism is atheistic
I don't think it is, necessarily. I've heard of religous humanism as well as secular humanism, and according to Wikipedia, there's a 3rd type of humanism:
Quote from: WikiHumanism is an approach in study, philosophy, world view or practice that focuses on human values and concerns. In other words it is an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. According to Greg M. Epstein, "Humanism today can be categorized as a movement, a philosophy of life or worldview, or ... [a] lifestance." In philosophy and social science, humanism is a perspective which affirms some notion of human nature, and is contrasted with anti-humanism.
Secular humanism is a secular ideology which espouses reason, ethics, and justice, whilst specifically rejecting supernatural and religious dogma as a basis of morality and decision-making. Secular humanism contrasts with religious humanism, which is an integration of humanist ethical philosophy with religious rituals and beliefs that center on human needs, interests, and abilities. Renaissance humanism is a cultural movement of the Italian Renaissance based on the study of classical works.
I really like the title of your topic Firebird :
"Becoming a more involved atheist"
Quote from: Cerulean on January 01, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
Hi Firebird! Great minds think alike - I just joined today as well.
I, too, considered myself an agnostic from as young an age as I can remember. Even as a kid it never made sense to me. In my experience I think I was afraid to admit to myself I didn't believe. Even though I did not grow up in a religious household, God has a way of seeping into the daily American routine, so I think I was a little brainwashed to believe there was a God.
When I finally accepted the fact that I truly, truly think religion is absolute nonsense for a thousand reasons, I knew I could finally identify myself as an atheist. I mean, not out loud of course. Just to myself. Shh.
It was actually kind of liberating - even if just to myself.
This is *exactly* how I feel! Well, the end bit, I grew up in a church of christ household and only started really doubting god's existence a few years ago, and only in the last few months have I felt the ball drop and truly doubt it all, but I do feel sheepish about referring to myself as anything, much less an atheist... :)
Quote from: Ateo on January 09, 2012, 05:13:13 PM
You got some good posts in reply Firebird. I'm curious, what's your response.
I just noticed how big this discussion has grown. Based on what you've all said, I am firmly in the agnostic atheist camp. I don't presume to know if there are god(s), spaghetti monsters, etc or not...I just highly doubt it :) I'd also give myself a 6 on the Dawkins scale.
Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.
Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.
Quote from: Wessik on January 12, 2012, 05:50:11 AM
Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.
Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.
Hello Wessik.
I see that English is not your first language and I'm assuming that you used a computer program to translate your thoughts from, possibly German, to English. Please do not misconstrue my intentions, I am trying to help, your posting however, is confusing.
I have received machine translated letters before and most of the time they come out completely unintelligible, sometimes saying the opposite of what was intended. I am afraid this could be what has happened to your posting. I would suggest you show this to someone who is fluent in both your language and English, and ask them to have a look at it.
I really like the sound of being an amatheist, but alas, I'm a committed atheist.
Quote from: Ateo on January 12, 2012, 12:46:58 PM
Quote from: Wessik on January 12, 2012, 05:50:11 AM
Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.
Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.
Hello Wessik.
I see that English is not your first language and I'm assuming that you used a computer program to translate your thoughts from, possibly German, to English. Please do not misconstrue my intentions, I am trying to help, your posting however, is confusing.
I did not find anything confusing in that post at all, it was very clear and proper English.
Quote from: Wessik on January 12, 2012, 05:50:11 AM
Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.
Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.
I know one person who calls themself an apatheist, as in he really doesn't care about religion in general. I thought it was a made-up term until I saw other people using it on this forum. How does that sound?
Quote from: Wessik on January 12, 2012, 05:50:11 AM
Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.
This could get confusing.
An Amethyst is a beautiful crystal. Now I am not saying that you aren't beautiful and I am not saying that you don't have a special sparkle about you. But I doubt that you look like this
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritvisions.com%2Fgfx%2Fimages%2Famethyst.jpg&hash=2b1ae2b16d3bed4e298ed9697b254d5554ce6547)
Does the term ignostic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism) or apatheist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism) fit?
I didn't think Wessik's post was confusing either. I get it. Defining yourself as an atheist still sort of brings religion into your identity, where maybe it doesn't really have a place there. I don't like the term apatheist though because I don't really consider myself to be apathetic. Ignostic doesn't really fit either - I like the idea of tripping up theists by making them provide a coherent definition of god as a debate tactic, but it doesn't really describe my thoughts on the topic in a very meaningful way. I think I prefer to be an amethyst. They are pretty.
Quote from: Ateo on January 12, 2012, 12:46:58 PM
I see that English is not your first language and I'm assuming that you used a computer program to translate your thoughts from, possibly German, to English. Please do not misconstrue my intentions, I am trying to help, your posting however, is confusing.
I find the confusion confusing, Wessik's use of language is fine, I have no problem with it at all. It seems to be the writing of a well educated person. ???
Welcome, fellow relative newbie. Very much agree with your comments re: the direction politics have taken with regard to religion in the last decade or so. Given the current climate, it's totally galling (sp?) to hear certain Republicans talk about a "war on religion."
Quote from: Firebird on January 12, 2012, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: Wessik on January 12, 2012, 05:50:11 AM
Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.
Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.
I know one person who calls themself an apatheist, as in he really doesn't care about religion in general. I thought it was a made-up term until I saw other people using it on this forum. How does that sound?
Sounds great to me. I use the term. Maybe even invented it. :)
I don't know... I kind of like the term amatheist. I derived it from latin "maximus" which means important. "A" of course being n"not". Then again, "pathos" is latin for "care" in a manner of speaking. I suppose they could be synonyms. :)
I used to go back and forth between atheist and agnostic. I really don't like labels as I find they are confining. Personally beliefs or lack thereof is personal and cannot be labelled or categorized. I use the word agnostic with my religious family members, I find it offends them less than if I called myself an atheist. dealing with religious family members has been a trial and that is why I sought out online atheist communities
If you are looking to become more involved. I would suggest checking out the National Atheist Party, usanap.org reading the charter will give you a good idea of the purpose but its a good way to get involved and platform issues that you think should be addressed.