I found that almost all religion is selfish... Other thing that annoys me is "God creates human to love Him". Why God need to do it in the first place if God is already perfect? Why he makes hell and heaven? Why there are rich and poor, while the poor always hit by bad things? Why God make idiots and damn geniuses ???
Anyway, I live in a country with the most Muslims population in the world, educated in Christian, 16 years old (this year 17), poor but my family could bought me computer and internet. Well, I become an atheist because of many things, some of them are stated above.
I am a weak atheist, because I still believe in the presence of God. Well, I think this is enough for now, because I'm still confused and I can't clear my minds yet.
My primary language is not English, so sorry if my English is bad. Anyway, this is my first time I post in a forum.
Please, guide me to enlightenment...
Be good to me :)
Hello LukevanVeith
Your English is good enough for a forum, not perfect, but good enough and nobody will be upset by it. You might be asked to expalin what you mean but no too often.
As you have been brought up a Christian in a Muslim country I expect you will have a lot to tell us.
And you need have no fear of anybody being nasty to you here.
Welcome to HAF.
Regards
Chris
Thx Chris.
I'm learning too here, so don't bother to ask :)
Well, it is a bit difficult to tell, but, I will do my best
One of major reasons why I choose to be an atheist is because I often feel unfairness in my life.
I have a question Chris, why you choose to be an atheist?
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 03:05:53 PM
Thx Chris.
I'm learning too here, so don't bother to ask :)
Well, it is a bit difficult to tell, but, I will do my best
One of major reasons why I choose to be an atheist is because I often feel unfairness in my life.
I have a question Chris, why you choose to be an atheist?
Well I was born in England in Dec 1959. My father was an atheist and my mother a Christian. I was taken to church by my Mother and discussed everything with my Father. I never became a believer. My Mother to often could not answer my questions and expected me to just believe God did it. When my Father did not know an answer he simply said he didn't know and to go and find out and tell him what I found. My Father's way felt more honest.
Hello neighbour.
Quote from: Tank on September 15, 2011, 03:11:04 PM
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 03:05:53 PM
Thx Chris.
I'm learning too here, so don't bother to ask :)
Well, it is a bit difficult to tell, but, I will do my best
One of major reasons why I choose to be an atheist is because I often feel unfairness in my life.
I have a question Chris, why you choose to be an atheist?
Well I was born in England in Dec 1959. My father was an atheist and my mother a Christian. I was taken to church by my Mother and discussed everything with my Father. I never became a believer. My Mother to often could not answer my questions and expected me to just believe God did it. When my Father did not know an answer he simply said he didn't know and to go and find out and tell him what I found. My Father's way felt more honest.
My country rejects atheism because once, my there are a coup de tat related to communism, so, I am in Christian Community in my school (my school major religion is Muslim). Usually I asked to read a bible first before asking question, kinda annoying because I'm a type of person who doesn't like reading book (except Campbell). Once, I ask a worship leader about other religion fate, and he said that they will go to hell because they don't believe in Him. This bother me so much... When I ask questions that they can't answer, they ask me to tighten my bond with God and deepen my faith, the hell...
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on September 15, 2011, 03:14:38 PM
Hello neighbour.
Hello there :)
So Chris, and everyone, please guide me to enlightenment...
Quote from: Tank on September 15, 2011, 02:43:24 PM
And you need have no fear of anybody being nasty to you here.
But... But... What if Asmodean wakes up in the foulest of moods and therefor in need of some major nastiness to others..? :'( Oh wait..! That's why god created religious trolls..! ;D
Welcome, Luke.
I'm not sure we can guide you to enlightenment, as enlightenment tends to be a highly individual thing, but we can point you in the right direction while you are seeking it.
Welcome!
Firstly, I don't think you should be looking for people to guide you to enlightenment, that really is something you should do yourself. Read around, and look at all the sides of the argument.
Actually weak atheists don't feel the presence of god, that would be more of a weak theist. Do you feel you lean more towards theism (belief in a personal god) or deism (god created the universe, but does not interfere in it)?
If you want to figure out what suits you best and would really like to test your faith, you could go directly for the strongest reasons you still have a lingering belief.
Quote from: Asmodean on September 15, 2011, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: Tank on September 15, 2011, 02:43:24 PM
And you need have no fear of anybody being nasty to you here.
But... But... What if Asmodean wakes up in the foulest of moods and therefor in need of some major nastiness to others..? :'( Oh wait..! That's why god created religious trolls..! ;D
Welcome, Luke.
I'm not sure we can guide you to enlightenment, as enlightenment tends to be a highly individual thing, but we can point you in the right direction while you are seeking it.
Thx
I appreciate any help :)
ummm, Asmodean??
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 15, 2011, 05:52:29 PM
Welcome!
Firstly, I don't think you should be looking for people to guide you to enlightenment, that really is something you should do yourself. Read around, and look at all the sides of the argument.
Actually weak atheists don't feel the presence of god, that would be more of a weak theist. Do you feel you lean more towards theism (belief in a personal god) or deism (god created the universe, but does not interfere in it)?
If you want to figure out what suits you best and would really like to test your faith, you could go directly for the strongest reasons you still have a lingering belief.
Thx. For your information, for now, I am rebelling God and yet I lost my believe in His presence, that's why I called myself a weak atheist (Because my mind still accepting His presence).
Anyway Guys, do your life are good enough?
Sorry, but I don't really understand...you lost your belief in his presence yet your mind still accepts his presence? ??? Could you elaborate further?
Anyways, to answer your second question, I would consider my life to be normal, with problems that I have to solve obviously, but not of the religious or anti-religious type.
welcome to haf
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 06:24:12 PM
I am rebelling God and yet I lost my believe in His presence, that's why I called myself a weak atheist (Because my mind still accepting His presence).
That would actually make you more of a weak (agnostic) theist. An atheist doesn't have any belief in god; not even a little. A weak atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in god but doesn't think it is possible to definitively say that no god could possibly exist; most weak theists are only weak (agnostic) towards the deist concept of god.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 15, 2011, 06:28:53 PM
Sorry, but I don't really understand...you lost your belief in his presence yet your mind still accepts his presence? ??? Could you elaborate further?
Anyways, to answer your second question, I would consider my life to be normal, with problems that I have to solve obviously, but not of the religious or anti-religious type.
In other words, I don't lost all of my belief yet (so I'm not 100% atheist). One of many reasons that make me still believe in the presence of God is miracle. There are a lot of healing (such as curing blind person, broken family make up), but, yet I still skeptical about it because I never seen one in my own eyes.
That's way I need enlightenment in my mind by you guys.
Quote from: Whitney on September 15, 2011, 06:47:34 PM
welcome to haf
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 06:24:12 PM
I am rebelling God and yet I lost my believe in His presence, that's why I called myself a weak atheist (Because my mind still accepting His presence).
That would actually make you more of a weak (agnostic) theist. An atheist doesn't have any belief in god; not even a little. A weak atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in god but doesn't think it is possible to definitively say that no god could possibly exist; most weak theists are only weak (agnostic) towards the deist concept of god.
Oh, I see... Thx for your information.
So, am I accepted in this forum?
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
So, am I accepted in this forum?
We accept everyone...there are chrsitians, muslims, agnostics etc on here too
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
One of many reasons that make me still believe in the presence of God is miracle. There are a lot of healing (such as curing blind person, broken family make up), but, yet I still skeptical about it because I never seen one in my own eyes.
I've seen things such as that, but I don't consider them miracles -- both those examples have very natural explanations, or (in the case of blindness spontaneously healing, for instance) the possibility of a natural explanation can't be dismissed. I think sometimes when we're wavering between lifelong, indoctrinated beliefs and what our reason tells us, we can mistake awe for the wonder of nature or real mysteries that don't
yet have an explanation for the presence of something supernatural. At least, that was part of my confusion when I was much younger and struggling between what I'd been told and what made sense.
Before I forget, welcome to the forum! ;)
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 15, 2011, 06:28:53 PM
Sorry, but I don't really understand...you lost your belief in his presence yet your mind still accepts his presence? ??? Could you elaborate further?
Anyways, to answer your second question, I would consider my life to be normal, with problems that I have to solve obviously, but not of the religious or anti-religious type.
In other words, I don't lost all of my belief yet (so I'm not 100% atheist). One of many reasons that make me still believe in the presence of God is miracle. There are a lot of healing (such as curing blind person, broken family make up), but, yet I still skeptical about it because I never seen one in my own eyes.
That's way I need enlightenment in my mind by you guys.
Ok, so it looks like you still believe that god could be the cause for somethings that happen in the universe and that this god intervenes in the universe.
For starters, you could ask yourself why you feel that god could be the cause of the things you call 'miracles' over some naturalistic explanation. One thing you have to keep in mind is that just because doctors sometimes can't explain how something happens, doesn't mean that something supernatural is the cause. That's the classic 'god of the gaps' argument, and honestly, it isn't a very good explanation for anything. 'God did it' is a non answer, unless it can actually be shown to be true, and differentiated from the natural world, otherwise you're taking a pantheistic approach, in which god is the laws of the universe and the universe itself.
The day an amputee spontaneously grows their limb back, then I'll believe in the supernatural over a natural explanation. Why is god so selective in what sort of miracles he performs? Is it because he's not omnipotent?
Why do you feel that when broken families get together again, god is the cause? Is it because it seems very improbable to you?
And you're right to be skeptical of anecdotal evidence ;D For any purpose of gathering information or learning about a subject, it's extremely fallible. I don't know if the topic interests you, but the psychological aspect of belief is worth looking into.
Quote from: Whitney on September 16, 2011, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
So, am I accepted in this forum?
We accept everyone...there are chrsitians, muslims, agnostics etc on here too
Thx admin Whitney :D
There are chrsitians, muslims, agnostics too? What are they doing here?
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on September 16, 2011, 02:17:38 AM
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
One of many reasons that make me still believe in the presence of God is miracle. There are a lot of healing (such as curing blind person, broken family make up), but, yet I still skeptical about it because I never seen one in my own eyes.
I've seen things such as that, but I don't consider them miracles -- both those examples have very natural explanations, or (in the case of blindness spontaneously healing, for instance) the possibility of a natural explanation can't be dismissed. I think sometimes when we're wavering between lifelong, indoctrinated beliefs and what our reason tells us, we can mistake awe for the wonder of nature or real mysteries that don't yet have an explanation for the presence of something supernatural. At least, that was part of my confusion when I was much younger and struggling between what I'd been told and what made sense.
Before I forget, welcome to the forum! ;)
O yeah, I forgot... Natural explanations.
Thx BookCatsEtc :)
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 16, 2011, 03:01:16 AM
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 15, 2011, 06:28:53 PM
Sorry, but I don't really understand...you lost your belief in his presence yet your mind still accepts his presence? ??? Could you elaborate further?
Anyways, to answer your second question, I would consider my life to be normal, with problems that I have to solve obviously, but not of the religious or anti-religious type.
In other words, I don't lost all of my belief yet (so I'm not 100% atheist). One of many reasons that make me still believe in the presence of God is miracle. There are a lot of healing (such as curing blind person, broken family make up), but, yet I still skeptical about it because I never seen one in my own eyes.
That's way I need enlightenment in my mind by you guys.
Ok, so it looks like you still believe that god could be the cause for somethings that happen in the universe and that this god intervenes in the universe.
For starters, you could ask yourself why you feel that god could be the cause of the things you call 'miracles' over some naturalistic explanation. One thing you have to keep in mind is that just because doctors sometimes can't explain how something happens, doesn't mean that something supernatural is the cause. That's the classic 'god of the gaps' argument, and honestly, it isn't a very good explanation for anything. 'God did it' is a non answer, unless it can actually be shown to be true, and differentiated from the natural world, otherwise you're taking a pantheistic approach, in which god is the laws of the universe and the universe itself.
The day an amputee spontaneously grows their limb back, then I'll believe in the supernatural over a natural explanation. Why is god so selective in what sort of miracles he performs? Is it because he's not omnipotent?
Why do you feel that when broken families get together again, god is the cause? Is it because it seems very improbable to you?
And you're right to be skeptical of anecdotal evidence ;D For any purpose of gathering information or learning about a subject, it's extremely fallible. I don't know if the topic interests you, but the psychological aspect of belief is worth looking into.
In the other side, I don't believe it too, confusing eh? *that's me, I have more than one PoV
I like this: "Why is god so selective in what sort of miracles he performs?"
Yes, nothing impossible, and everything have its own causes.
Thx xSilverPhinx
I know it sounds cryptic...I did not think a bio was the first thing out the door....Sometimes TMI is just that TOO MUCH INFORMATION.. :)..I had perused some of the entries and tried to adjust so as not to be overboard in my opening. Though I could be like the watchers off of Fringe, I still like to interact. Thank you for your welcome....
Quote from: Question on September 18, 2011, 04:12:11 PM
I know it sounds cryptic...
Yes it is rather, has it been posted in the wrong thread?
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 18, 2011, 03:47:11 PM
There are chrsitians, muslims, agnostics too? What are they doing here?
I can't easily explain why they are all here but those that are here to honestly debate tend to share in common that they appreciate that the forum is set up to encourage civil dialogue. On occasion we do get a religious person slide through that is just here to tell us they are right and we are wrong.
welcome!
i think that soon you'll find your own answer to whether or not you believe in god. i don't think anyone can fully decide that for you.
but good luck! (:
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
In other words, I don't lost all of my belief yet (so I'm not 100% atheist). One of many reasons that make me still believe in the presence of God is miracle. There are a lot of healing (such as curing blind person, broken family make up), but, yet I still skeptical about it because I never seen one in my own eyes.
Have you ever heard about a person growing back a limb (an arm or a leg,, or even a toe or finger)
Miracles seem to be limited to the things that can be faked, but never the impossible.
Quote from: Stevil on September 20, 2011, 07:04:13 AM
Have you ever heard about a person growing back a limb (an arm or a leg,, or even a toe or finger)
...Without visiting Chernobyl, where I hear one can grow oneself an extra eye if one wants to. Always wanted to poke a three-eyed person in their third eye. :-\
welcome to the forum, and well done on questioning religion in a country where I imagine thet's not so easy. All of the questions in your first post are good reasons for not believing in a god. If there is a god, he's done a pretty poor job of things, and religion is one of his worst creations!
QuoteOh, I see... Thx for your information.
So, am I accepted in this forum?
you are definitely accepted in the forum. it's for anyone- whether you know what you believe or are on the path to getting there. (:
Fixed quotes - Tank
It's funny how all of the things that science can't yet explain are jumped on by the religious as being Gods' work. And the more science is able to explain the fewer interventions are able to be ascribed to God. This is what Dawkins refers to as the 'God of the gaps', and these gaps are closing fast.
Quote from: Question on September 18, 2011, 04:12:11 PM
I know it sounds cryptic...I did not think a bio was the first thing out the door....Sometimes TMI is just that TOO MUCH INFORMATION.. :)..I had perused some of the entries and tried to adjust so as not to be overboard in my opening. Though I could be like the watchers off of Fringe, I still like to interact. Thank you for your welcome....
Umm, this is my first time active in a forum, and it is a forum related to religion, so I didn't know what I have to do. Anyway, you're welcome :)
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on September 19, 2011, 04:04:24 AM
Quote from: Question on September 18, 2011, 04:12:11 PM
I know it sounds cryptic...
Yes it is rather, has it been posted in the wrong thread?
Pardon me?
Quote from: Whitney on September 19, 2011, 04:16:55 AM
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 18, 2011, 03:47:11 PM
There are chrsitians, muslims, agnostics too? What are they doing here?
I can't easily explain why they are all here but those that are here to honestly debate tend to share in common that they appreciate that the forum is set up to encourage civil dialogue. On occasion we do get a religious person slide through that is just here to tell us they are right and we are wrong.
So, anyone in here evolve from atheist to theist? I'm a just a bit tired listening and learning about religion...
But I do appreciate them, maybe because in my school, I'm a bit famous to Muslims extracurricular (even though I didn't join them).
Quote from: kbush on September 20, 2011, 03:56:19 AM
welcome!
i think that soon you'll find your own answer to whether or not you believe in god. i don't think anyone can fully decide that for you.
but good luck! (:
Thanks! I hope you too :)
Quote from: Stevil on September 20, 2011, 07:04:13 AM
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 15, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
In other words, I don't lost all of my belief yet (so I'm not 100% atheist). One of many reasons that make me still believe in the presence of God is miracle. There are a lot of healing (such as curing blind person, broken family make up), but, yet I still skeptical about it because I never seen one in my own eyes.
Have you ever heard about a person growing back a limb (an arm or a leg,, or even a toe or finger)
Miracles seem to be limited to the things that can be faked, but never the impossible.
Not yet, but I believe it. What I can't believe is making things from nothing (really nothing, vacuum).
Quote from: Asmodean on September 20, 2011, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: Stevil on September 20, 2011, 07:04:13 AM
Have you ever heard about a person growing back a limb (an arm or a leg,, or even a toe or finger)
...Without visiting Chernobyl, where I hear one can grow oneself an extra eye if one wants to. Always wanted to poke a three-eyed person in their third eye. :-\
Sounds interesting...
Quote from: Too Few Lions on September 20, 2011, 01:57:37 PM
welcome to the forum, and well done on questioning religion in a country where I imagine thet's not so easy. All of the questions in your first post are good reasons for not believing in a god. If there is a god, he's done a pretty poor job of things, and religion is one of his worst creations!
Thanks, yeah, I think there are enough questions.
Yeah... One of his worst creation.
Quote from: kbush on September 21, 2011, 03:33:36 AM
QuoteOh, I see... Thx for your information.
So, am I accepted in this forum?
you are definitely accepted in the forum. it's for anyone- whether you know what you believe or are on the path to getting there. (:
Fixed quotes - Tank
Thanks :)
Quote from: Scissorlegs on September 21, 2011, 07:40:40 PM
It's funny how all of the things that science can't yet explain are jumped on by the religious as being Gods' work. And the more science is able to explain the fewer interventions are able to be ascribed to God. This is what Dawkins refers to as the 'God of the gaps', and these gaps are closing fast.
I agree. That is what science meant in the first place.
Uhm, I'm sorry for my slow reaction in this forum because there are some things to do.
YAY!!! 1 more post!!!
@ LukevanVeith
Just a thought. In future feel free to respond to each post in a new post, it's easier for you to do, it's easier for others to read and it's easier for somebody else to respond to. Gathering all your responses together in one post makes it difficult to respond to just one part of your post.
plus lots of individual replies quickly takes you past your ten post probationary period ;)
Quote from: Too Few Lions on September 22, 2011, 10:33:04 AM
plus lots of individual replies quickly takes you past your ten post probationary period ;)
That would be the other reason :D
Quote from: Tank on September 22, 2011, 10:31:09 AM
@ LukevanVeith
Just a thought. In future feel free to respond to each post in a new post, it's easier for you to do, it's easier for others to read and it's easier for somebody else to respond to. Gathering all your responses together in one post makes it difficult to respond to just one part of your post.
Okay Tank! ;)
Yay, official user!
Quote from: Too Few Lions on September 22, 2011, 10:33:04 AM
plus lots of individual replies quickly takes you past your ten post probationary period ;)
probationary period?? what is that?
Wow, hot topic...
Anyway guys, thanks for all of your work and support, I really do appreciate them. :D
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 22, 2011, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on September 22, 2011, 10:33:04 AM
plus lots of individual replies quickly takes you past your ten post probationary period ;)
probationary period?? what is that?
you have to wait until you've made ten posts before you can contribute to the racier parts of the forum (like science and religion). Until then you're restricted to the laid back lounge and intros. You've reached twelve posts now so can post stuff wherever you like :D
Quote from: Too Few Lions on September 22, 2011, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: LukevanVeith on September 22, 2011, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on September 22, 2011, 10:33:04 AM
plus lots of individual replies quickly takes you past your ten post probationary period ;)
probationary period?? what is that?
you have to wait until you've made ten posts before you can contribute to the racier parts of the forum (like science and religion). Until then you're restricted to the laid back lounge and intros. You've reached twelve posts now so can post stuff wherever you like :D
Yeah.
A topic just crossed my mine, I will make a thread.