Trayvon Martin: Probe into killing of Florida teenager

[philosoraptor]

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html

Bumping this thread to post the above link.  Recently released video of Zimmerman arriving at the police station after the shooting shows him clean, without any scrapes or bruises.  Interesting, given his claims that Martin attacked him first, and the basis for him claiming the SYG law.  The more that comes out, the less justified his actions are seeming (not that they were justified anyway).

[Ali]

I think it's disgusting how certain people are trying to smear this kid by pointing out that he had been suspended from school for having marijuana in his backpack, like that is in any way relevant to him getting chased and gunned down by that freaking maniac.

Philosoraptor - I agree with you.  I'm against the death penalty.  Life in prison is certainly no cake walk.

[Prometheus]

The court of public opinion's all over this one. I think the public should step back and let the system do its job. None of us really know what happened one way or the other, but that hasn't stopped a few million people from deciding he's guilty all on their own.

[Icarus]

A lot more information has emerged about this since it first made the headlines. Zimmerman is certainly not without blame but fairly good evidence suggests that Martin attacked him, not the other way around.  Zim will probably do some hard time for his stupidity and subsequent shooting.

About 50 miles down the road from the Zim/Martin scene (Lake Wales Fl) another episode took place with an entirely different flavor.

Episode one: A nice family of four was awakened, in the night, by the sound of breaking glass. A burglar was invading the home. The father grabbed his 38 and tried to stop the burglar. The burglar attacked the father with a weapon and got himself shot. He was seriously wounded but did not die.

Episode two; Some poor slobs girlfriend broke up with him. He was angry. He had a few drinks then he had some more drinks. He became wildly drunk. He had a friend deliver him to his girlfriends house where he would have it out with her. He selected a house which was on the wrong street. He tried to kick the door down. The occupant of the house went to the door to tell the guy to go away. Drunk pushed his way into the house, home owner who had previously scooped up his 38 backed away. The drunk ripped off his shirt and yelled; "you wanna fight?"  Homeowner fired one warning shot into the floor in front of the drunk. The drunk tried to attack. Homeowner shot him one time. Dead.

You guessed it. It was the same house, same father, same peaceful family, in both episodes. The court exhonerated the home owner in both instances. This is an example of the real intent of the stand your ground law. Zimmermans case is far from the same set of circumstances and no where near as justifiable.

You can imagine the trauma for the homeowner and their children. They will live in fear and probably in some guilt for the rest of their lives. This was a decent, middle class, law abiding, family, not some trigger happy bunch of cowboys.

[Ali]

Wait, the same family had random people breaking in to their house on two different occasions?

Anyway, my thought about the whole Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident is this: If a grown man were chasing me through my neighborhood, at some point I might get to the point where I felt like my only option was to attack him too (like, I don't want to lead a psychopath back to my house because my family is there and I also don't want him to know where I live, or I can't run anymore, or I feel like he's about to catch me and hurt me) I don't think he should be allowed to then say "She attacked me!" and then shoot me dead and get off.  Don't effing chase people and put them in fear of their lives and you won't get attacked!

[Recusant]

. . . fairly good evidence suggests . . .

Don't be shy about citing reputable sources.

[Stevil]

Episode two; Some poor slobs girlfriend broke up with him. He was angry. He had a few drinks then he had some more drinks. He became wildly drunk. He had a friend deliver him to his girlfriends house where he would have it out with her. He selected a house which was on the wrong street. He tried to kick the door down. The occupant of the house went to the door to tell the guy to go away. Drunk pushed his way into the house, home owner who had previously scooped up his 38 backed away. The drunk ripped off his shirt and yelled; "you wanna fight?"  Homeowner fired one warning shot into the floor in front of the drunk. The drunk tried to attack. Homeowner shot him one time. Dead.

This is a good case against guns, I think.
A really drunk person should be easy to overcome, or easy to run away from. No-one had to die.

[Ali]

Episode two; Some poor slobs girlfriend broke up with him. He was angry. He had a few drinks then he had some more drinks. He became wildly drunk. He had a friend deliver him to his girlfriends house where he would have it out with her. He selected a house which was on the wrong street. He tried to kick the door down. The occupant of the house went to the door to tell the guy to go away. Drunk pushed his way into the house, home owner who had previously scooped up his 38 backed away. The drunk ripped off his shirt and yelled; "you wanna fight?"  Homeowner fired one warning shot into the floor in front of the drunk. The drunk tried to attack. Homeowner shot him one time. Dead.

This is a good case against guns, I think.
A really drunk person should be easy to overcome, or easy to run away from. No-one had to die.

Yep.  Or how about this one?  She didn't die thankfully, but look at her.  She looks terrifying, doesn't she?  There is no way that the home owners could have possibly dealt with a small blond drunk girl than shooting her. 

[Stevil]

will not face any charges for shooting Ripple because of Colorado's "Make My Day" law, which allows residents to use deadly force against home intruders.

"Make My Day", I can see the mentality behind the law makers there.

If a Police Officer shoots a person with a stun gun in NZ there is a big inquiry, I couldn't imagine what would happen if a police shot a person with bullets for being drunk and disorderly.

Ordinary citizens are not equipped, skill wise, emotionally, legal knowledge, or experience with regards to gun fights.
Wouldn't it be better to take some basic self defense course rather than simply buy a gun?

[Asmodean]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, to borrow from Gandhi. 

I think he was wrong. If nothing else, logically, the very last person standing would have an eye left.

[En_Route]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, to borrow from Gandhi. 

I think he was wrong. If nothing else, logically, the very last person standing would have an eye left.

Unless he was already missing an eye.

[Asmodean]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, to borrow from Gandhi. 

I think he was wrong. If nothing else, logically, the very last person standing would have an eye left.

Unless he was already missing an eye.

No.

[Non Quixote]

This subject is one that is very close to home for me personally.  I lived in Sanford from age 6 to the age of 32 when I moved my family a little closer to Orlando.  Kept the house there, and I still rent it out.  My wife and I have known Billy Lee (the former Sanfod Chief of Police) and his wife Tina since high school.  When I say "know" I mean that Billy and I were both members in a very small Rotaract Club (less than 20 active members) for about 10 years after high school.  Of course my opinion is biased, but I will always feel that he is a good man who got a very raw deal when the powers-that-be needed a scapegoat to feed to the mob.

I understand the emotion surrounding this tragedy, but unfortunately emotions that run this high usually begin to create their own "facts" and versions of events because a tragedy of this size demands maximum carnage.  We can't believe that an unarmed child was gunned down due to poor judgement and suddenly out of control escalation.  Someone has to be guilty of something premeditated and heinous otherwise it's a tragedy that could arbitrarily happen to us or someone we love.

The media carries their own burden of guilt as well, having fanned the flames with sensationalism for the sake of ratings.

I am not a George Zimmerman fan, but neither do I hate him (at least not until the legalities are over).  I am not ready to take him out to the nearest tree and string him up, and I wonder if it is possible for him to get a fair trial in Florida or anywhere for that matter.  The "events" of that evening, real and imagined have grown so disconnected and wildly speculative that it impossible to piece together what happened that night unless you are a member of the team investigating the incident.

I'm not ready to convict or exonerate anyone based soley on what I've read or heard from the press or punditry.  Too often they have their own agenda.

[Asmodean]

[Tank]

{snip}

I'm not ready to convict or exonerate anyone based soley on what I've read or heard from the press or punditry.  Too often they have their own agenda.

Hear, hear.

Trial by media is unacceptable. In an ideal world the press should not be able to report or speculate on any crime until after the trial has reached a verdict; because until that point they can not be in full possession of the available facts. The exception being that the police may ask the press for assistance in tracking down a suspect.