What do theists believe about mental illness?

[Amicale]

I left the question wide open deliberately to cover a wide range of theists, rather than anyone from one specific religious background. I also left it wide open to cover any number of mental illnesses, challenges, etc. It's OK if there are several different, varying, even contradictory answers. I was just interested in getting some opinions. Whether you are a theist, used to be one, or you have an understanding of what theists believe generally about the subject, I'd appreciate your answers!

Some questions to consider. (Please pick any one or more you're interested in, or add your own)

- From a theistic point of view, what is the origin of some/most/all mental illness? Simple biology? Social causes? Sin? Demon possession? The 'fallen nature' of man? Something else?

- From a theistic point of view, should medicine and counseling be used to treat mental illness primarily, or should prayer, or should both be used?

- When people pray for certain outcomes in given situations, why is it difficult/nearly impossible to literally pray away someone's mental illness? (ie, praying for someone to be healed from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder)

- If someone has a mental illness that involves auditory hallucinations, from a theistic perspective, is it even possible for that person to know whether they're hearing 'God's voice' or simply 'a voice', if they do hear voices? This question isn't as far fetched as one might think -- there are many people who believe that God communicates his will to them via something akin to telepathy, when in fact they're not really hearing anything at all. Or... are they? 

- A more controversial question: if someone DOES claim to hear God's voice telling them what to do, from a theistic perspective, do you think that there's a possibility God's really telling them what to do, or would you classify them as mentally ill?

OK, that's good for now I think. Have at it. And, again, if you're a non-theist (as most here are) please feel free to put on a 'theist hat' just for this thread, based on your own past experiences, knowledge, understanding, etc. Theists, you're more than welcome to speculate whichever way you'd like to. And anyone's very welcome to branch off with different questions or ideas to consider, too.

[statichaos]

Short answer: Biology and various social and emotional pressures and traumas, depending on the nature of the illness.  Therapy and medication for the treatment, the intensity and type of which varying with the intensity and type of mental illness.  I believe that meditation, prayer, and the like can be helpful, but only as focusing mechanisms used in conjunction with the other things mentioned.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Short answer: Biology and various social and emotional pressures and traumas, depending on the nature of the illness.  Therapy and medication for the treatment, the intensity and type of which varying with the intensity and type of mental illness.  I believe that meditation, prayer, and the like can be helpful, but only as focusing mechanisms used in conjunction with the other things mentioned.

I believe somewhat along these lines. However, I do conceive of God as a being who hears prayer, and may respond.  More than anything, I conceive of prayer as sort of getting aligned with God, so that the best possible outcome is more likely.  But illness has biological and/or social origins, so medical and/or psychological/psychiatric intervention should be used, with prayer, meditation etc. used in conjunction with those therapies.  As an aside, I know some of the physicians in our institution, which has about 13,000 employees and over 1,000 docs, will pray with a patient if the patient wants/requests it. 

[McQ]

Good question to pose. I think this can be a very good thread. Based on my knowledge and experiences with several different christian denominations, you could get an amazing array of answers. They will range from mental illnesses being caused by satan (from very deep fundamentalist types), to the latest in psychology and neuroscience realm (meet the Methodists).

Should be a good one to read and will probably grow a lot of pages.

[AnimatedDirt]

- From a theistic point of view, what is the origin of some/most/all mental illness? Simple biology? Social causes? Sin? Demon possession? The 'fallen nature' of man? Something else?

Ultimately IMHO based as a Christian.  Sin is the root cause.  That means that from sin entering into humanity, humanity has deviated from the perfect creation God first made.  Sin (or the ability to go/choose opposite (as in our bodies vs our active choices) to God's original will...that meaning while He knew sin would enter, it wasn't something He wanted, but allowed) allows for mutations and these mutations progress further and further to the point of sickness and disease.

- From a theistic point of view, should medicine and counseling be used to treat mental illness primarily, or should prayer, or should both be used?

Since God did give us a brain to use, the ability to find what is wrong and possibly treat it is in harmony with prayer.

- When people pray for certain outcomes in given situations, why is it difficult/nearly impossible to literally pray away someone's mental illness? (ie, praying for someone to be healed from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder)

Praying to God is not a guarantee that the prayer will be answered as we wish it to be.  What is guaranteed is that "every tear will be wiped" and all will be made whole in His time. 

- If someone has a mental illness that involves auditory hallucinations, from a theistic perspective, is it even possible for that person to know whether they're hearing 'God's voice' or simply 'a voice', if they do hear voices? This question isn't as far fetched as one might think -- there are many people who believe that God communicates his will to them via something akin to telepathy, when in fact they're not really hearing anything at all. Or... are they? 

As a Christian we have the ability to 'check' on these revelations and make an informed decision on who is speaking to these persons.  The Bible is all we have to do so.  (Isaiah 8:20)

- A more controversial question: if someone DOES claim to hear God's voice telling them what to do, from a theistic perspective, do you think that there's a possibility God's really telling them what to do, or would you classify them as mentally ill?

See answer just above.

[Sweetdeath]

I believe it is a result or both trauma and biology.  Biology stuff can also be worsened by poor diet or enviroment.

Medication, good diet, and great friends are best I think.
Sometimes therapists too. Nothing wrong with that.

[statichaos]

I was so into replying to the first part of the post that I missed the other questions.

- When people pray for certain outcomes in given situations, why is it difficult/nearly impossible to literally pray away someone's mental illness? (ie, praying for someone to be healed from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder)

That's an excellent question.  Of course, the only prayer that I commonly say is "Thank you", so I'm going to say that it doesn't apply to my viewpoints.

- If someone has a mental illness that involves auditory hallucinations, from a theistic perspective, is it even possible for that person to know whether they're hearing 'God's voice' or simply 'a voice', if they do hear voices? This question isn't as far fetched as one might think -- there are many people who believe that God communicates his will to them via something akin to telepathy, when in fact they're not really hearing anything at all. Or... are they? 

I tend to judge such matters by the effect that they have.  If the voices are telling the person to do things that are harmful to themselves or others, then I consider it a psychosis.  If the voices are neutral in effect or telling them to do something positive, then I'm willing to give the hearer the benefit of the doubt on the matter. 

Those who I read about online and in the papers who are commanded by God to kill?  That's not the God that I've experienced, so I'm skeptical, and think that commitment to an institution is in order.

The man who I knew on Venice Beach who was told by God to gather food and distribute it to his fellow homeless people?  Even if he's wrong, he's doing good, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

- A more controversial question: if someone DOES claim to hear God's voice telling them what to do, from a theistic perspective, do you think that there's a possibility God's really telling them what to do, or would you classify them as mentally ill?

I seem to have answered this question during the last one.  A twofer!

[Ecurb Noselrub]

- If someone has a mental illness that involves auditory hallucinations, from a theistic perspective, is it even possible for that person to know whether they're hearing 'God's voice' or simply 'a voice', if they do hear voices? This question isn't as far fetched as one might think -- there are many people who believe that God communicates his will to them via something akin to telepathy, when in fact they're not really hearing anything at all. Or... are they? 

I tend to judge such matters by the effect that they have.  If the voices are telling the person to do things that are harmful to themselves or others, then I consider it a psychosis.  If the voices are neutral in effect or telling them to do something positive, then I'm willing to give the hearer the benefit of the doubt on the matter. 

Those who I read about online and in the papers who are commanded by God to kill?  That's not the God that I've experienced, so I'm skeptical, and think that commitment to an institution is in order.

Yes, if I heard a voice telling me to kill, I would assume that it was not God, since my experience with Jesus is one of total grace, love and forgiveness. I don't hear audible voices, but I do experience a sense of divine presence - I have never felt any urge to harm or do evil as a result of this - quite the opposite.

[Tristan Jay]

I asked on a Christian forum about the nature of Free Will, the acceptable range of functional free will, and where things stand in that regard when you throw in mental illness which taints the whole free will thing.  I got the impression that they didn't seem to think Free Will was a priority to God, or if a person's Free Will was deficient enough because of mental health problems, God would be lenient.

The argument over Free Will pisses me off, not to put too fine a point on it.  I've seen it used to excuse God from The Problem of Evil.  I've heard Christians argue for it as an important point for assembling the equation of Choice=Rebellion Against God=Sin, God wanted us to choose to love Him, but it's impossible for us to not rebel because we are born into sin and all that stupid stuff.

And then there's mental illness.  I'm going to try an assemble my thoughts as I write.  I have a number of mental conditions.  ADD, OCD, Depression, Anxiety, and a brain processing hearing impairment.  God can have 'em.  He can take all the mental illnesses that ever afflicted anyone, and shove them up his stupid, holier-than-thou ass.  See, here is an example of my obsession with hating Him.  I'm obsessed with spirituality, constructs that are considered sacred or profane, mythology, magic, and the hope that there is more to this world that the disappointing, cripplingly sad tragedy of the world and humanity, and the fucker God who doesn't ever help enough (he doesn't even bother trying subtle methods like empower those of us who are well-meaning in an effective enough way).  And here we are with my reaction to the world, the sadness and the anxious wish for something better.

I hate Him so much, I want to violently commit murder on Him.  The reaction of someone who feels trapped, on the edge of hysteria.  Except for the fact that I am self-aware and can for a moment step back and observe my thoughts and reaction, talk myself through it.  I've been practicing self-observation based on some reading of Buddhist-inspired literature.  I don't suppose God would bother to endorse Buddhism as being useful, because his religions are too fucking busy telling everyone that theirs is the one true religion.

One other thing, which is still touching on the topic but from a different angle.  Having grown up with the problems I've had, and the impact it has had on my learning in life, the way I (didn't effectively) relate with my peers, the toll it took on my self confidence...and then we have Christianity that discourages self-confidence, promotes a pattern of thought that is self-destructive of a person's self-confidence (for some people to the point where their basic functionality is crippled).  Fuck God, and Fuck Christianity, too.

Despite some logically healthier alternatives, I somehow still believe there's a God, even though I think He's probably a sadist, or the most horrible sociopath imaginable, or a total incompetent, or a all of the above and then some.

I wish I could assemble these thoughts into some coherent point, but the ADD makes my thoughts race around like crazy, makes it hard to organize.  You wouldn't believe how long it takes me to write some of my more coherent posts to the forum.  I keep starting with some point about Free Will:  The lack of Free Will means that we are preprogrammed, so we might as well hate God if we are one of the unlucky one's He's programmed with hardened hearts.  Or, we have Free Will, but it's tainted by lack of information, a lack of empowerment for a higher ratio of positively exercised Free Will versus negatively exercised Free Will (why does evil seem so prevalent in the world compared to good?), or it's tainted by mental illness, or untold thousands of other problems, which doesn't reflect well on God either.  If we even consider the fact that there is disagreement about the question of Free Will in the first place, God still looses points there, because his followers think it's pretty fucking important, left right or center, and He didn't exactly make Himself very clear.  So, He's a dumbass once again.

So, here is the raw and raging internal processing of one seriously damaged and severely pissed off theist!  Why can't I make life easier for myself?

[Sweetdeath]

Tristian, you hate god? You'd hate my father. Seems he had an answer for everything concerning his holy fairyness.
Mental illness? That's a plauge brought on by humankind because of greed. Chemicals in our food and drinks cuz birth defects such as down syndrome and other  mental illness states .
If you want to punch him in the face, i'd love to watch.

[Amicale]

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone. Just to add my own perspective in here briefly --

The Catholic church would probably generally side with mental illness being biological/sociological, and they'd recommend the usual medication, counseling, etc. I suspect their position behind all that though would also be that sin exists in the world and it affects everyone, so they might think that sin or in rare cases demonic possession actually causes mental illness -- they're still doing exorcisms, after all. Other Protestant churches would definitely say that without a doubt, sin is the main reason mental illness happens. I've had someone (their denomination's unimportant, it was Protestant Christian though) tell me that the main reason I deal with mental illness is because I've sinned against God, had a child out of 'wedlock', and am ignoring him, apparently -- so this is my punishment. I rolled my eyes at that one, and stopped returning her phone calls. When I was teaching students in the Middle East who were Muslim, we discussed illness generally one day, and what they said was refreshing: to the very last one of them, they said that any illness is biological or sociological in nature, and anyone who is ill should seek medical treatment. I asked about prayer, and I was told that yes, it helps your state of mind, but it may not heal you so it's best to get to a doctor. I quietly thought "good for them!" but didn't say it.

It seems like opinions are all over the board, when it comes to mental illness. And while as AD pointed out, many people believe that prayer can't be used like a wishing well to heal something... it's amazing, the number of people who subscribe to the 'name it and claim it' mentality, where if you want something, you claim it and God grants it if it's in his will... but if you don't get it, you must not have enough faith, or somesuch.

And Tristan, I absolutely sympathize with what you said about how long it takes you to write posts and make your thoughts coherent. I understand, and I'm in the same boat -- your post was perfectly understandable, by the way... whereas I doubt some of mine are. I've killed threads more than a few times. 

[statichaos]

Yeah, I guess that I get to go ahead and get all personal with this.

I'm currently living with mental illness, and so is my wife.  She's severe bipolar, and I'm dealing with both anxiety disorder with agoraphobia and A.D.D.  It's difficult. 

I suppose that the greatest difficulty for me as a theist is dealing with exactly what this means when it comes to my relationship with God.  I'm fortunate enough to not come from the various Christian perspectives that would say that this is something that needs to be prayed away, or (shudder) exorcised, and to be highly skeptical of the New Age paths that would suggest that magical thinking and positive thoughts would be enough to cure me of my various ills, and hers.

The fact is, though, that only medication and therapy have been shown to be of any use for me.  My wife engages in various guided meditations and the like, and they seem to be helpful to her when taken in addition to medication and therapy.  Not so much for me.  However, I have seen definite constructive changes in her actions that I did not see when she was relying solely on medication and therapy, so I'm taking a "Who am I to say otherwise?" approach to her path.  Mine is a touch more limited to the medical realm, but it does include some meditation and prayer to a lesser degree that I find useful, so...good for me.

On the other hand, I've personally known people who relied entirely on religious and "spiritual" foci, and nearly every single one has ended up spiraling into hells that I can only imagine.

[Amicale]

Statichaos, that was brave of you to share that. Thank you. I'm sorry that both you and your wife have such difficulties, and the fact that you're fighting through them together will probably only strengthen your relationship. Living through chaos and struggle sometimes has a way of bringing two people closer together, and I hope that's always the case with you two.

Like you, only medication and therapy seem to work for me. I have a specific form of depression that most people don't understand, but it involves hearing things that I know do not exist, ie, voices and sounds. So to get personal for a moment myself, even if I did believe in God, talking to him would unfortunately be a very bad idea because one of the main things I've learned through therapy is, under no circumstances should I attempt to 'interact' with anyone or anything I can't visibly actually SEE. It would unfortunately snowball into something terrifying, and I'm still trying to get over the last time that happened, so... yeah, my own experiences can back up what you said about people spiraling into hell. In my own case, looking at the world through rational, non-religious eyes is something that's actually necessary for me to stay more or less sane. *shrug* It is what it is. It's also one of the main reasons I'm agnostic. I literally don't know, in the truest sense of the idea -- I couldn't be given proof of God's existence even if he talked to me, because for me, hearing stuff like that would be old hat, and something I'm sick to death of. That being said, I'm sincerely glad that you're able to come to terms, more or less, with your own beliefs and that they're of some value to you.

[Egor]

Statichaos, that was brave of you to share that. Thank you. I'm sorry that both you and your wife have such difficulties, and the fact that you're fighting through them together will probably only strengthen your relationship. Living through chaos and struggle sometimes has a way of bringing two people closer together, and I hope that's always the case with you two.

Like you, only medication and therapy seem to work for me. I have a specific form of depression that most people don't understand, but it involves hearing things that I know do not exist, ie, voices and sounds. So to get personal for a moment myself, even if I did believe in God, talking to him would unfortunately be a very bad idea because one of the main things I've learned through therapy is, under no circumstances should I attempt to 'interact' with anyone or anything I can't visibly actually SEE. It would unfortunately snowball into something terrifying, and I'm still trying to get over the last time that happened, so... yeah, my own experiences can back up what you said about people spiraling into hell. In my own case, looking at the world through rational, non-religious eyes is something that's actually necessary for me to stay more or less sane. *shrug* It is what it is. It's also one of the main reasons I'm agnostic. I literally don't know, in the truest sense of the idea -- I couldn't be given proof of God's existence even if he talked to me, because for me, hearing stuff like that would be old hat, and something I'm sick to death of. That being said, I'm sincerely glad that you're able to come to terms, more or less, with your own beliefs and that they're of some value to you.

I appreciated reading this particular response more than I thought I would. You have good insight into your illness, which I'm assuming is a kind of depression with psychotic features. And I wholeheartedly agree that in your case, and in cases similar to yours, people should avoid religion.

However, that doesn't mean they can't be sorry for the bad things they've done in their life and hope that God will forgive them and give them a home with Him after this life is over. That doesn't mean they can't try to become better at things like gaining insight into their mind, as you have, or helping others in simple ways when the opportunities present themselves for that. And it doesn't mean they can't examine what it means to love their neighbor as themselves.

And if they can be well enough through the various treatments and medications to know that is the limit of their religious ability, then it is enough. Ironically, it would be more than what 99% of religious people ever achieve.

[Sweetdeath]

Egor, are you saying that people with mental retardation and down syndrome need to ask for  god's forgiveness?