Prostitution, legalise or not?

[The Magic Pudding]

Of course, if prostitution were legal, then we could tax it . . . hmmm.

It is taxed here, I don't think it should be.  I don't like the idea of a tax obligation making them have to work more.  Tax in a sense is how individuals pay to keep a society functioning.  Society has failed at least some of them and maybe they shouldn't owe society anything.  Perhaps I could argue the transaction is of a capital nature.  The prostitute isn't just selling their time, they are selling themselves, they may loose a bit of themselves with every sale.  I'll spare you an attempt at making a case for a depreciation claim.  There would be some who seek legitimacy as a business person, who don't see themselves as victims and they wouldn't appreciate my view.

[Ali]

Of course, if prostitution were legal, then we could tax it . . . hmmm.

It is taxed here, I don't think it should be.  I don't like the idea of a tax obligation making them have to work more.  Tax in a sense is how individuals pay to keep a society functioning.  Society has failed at least some of them and maybe they shouldn't owe society anything.  Perhaps I could argue the transaction is of a capital nature.  The prostitute isn't just selling their time, they are selling themselves, they may loose a bit of themselves with every sale.  I'll spare you an attempt at making a case for a depreciation claim.  There would be some who seek legitimacy as a business person, who don't see themselves as victims and they wouldn't appreciate my view.

And there is the rub with legalized prostitution.  I think that people should be allowed to do it, but if that is their only or best option to survive, society is definitely failing them. 

[Sweetdeath]

Of course, if prostitution were legal, then we could tax it . . . hmmm.

It is taxed here, I don't think it should be.  I don't like the idea of a tax obligation making them have to work more.  Tax in a sense is how individuals pay to keep a society functioning.  Society has failed at least some of them and maybe they shouldn't owe society anything.  Perhaps I could argue the transaction is of a capital nature.  The prostitute isn't just selling their time, they are selling themselves, they may loose a bit of themselves with every sale.  I'll spare you an attempt at making a case for a depreciation claim.  There would be some who seek legitimacy as a business person, who don't see themselves as victims and they wouldn't appreciate my view.

And there is the rub with legalized prostitution.  I think that people should be allowed to do it, but if that is their only or best option to survive, society is definitely failing them. 

Thank you Ali , MP. I find it very scary if anyone finds prostitution okay... These people..human beings are hurt, probably suffering a childhood trauma. They arent respecting themselves, and do lose a little piece each time. Being used like an empty vessel or object is very sad..

It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.

[The Magic Pudding]

Thank you Ali , MP. I find it very scary if anyone finds prostitution okay... These people..human beings are hurt, probably suffering a childhood trauma. They arent respecting themselves, and do lose a little piece each time. Being used like an empty vessel or object is very sad..

It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.

I don't find prostitution OK, I have an antipathy, a distaste for the thing.
I never have, never want to have any direct connection to it, I try to hold on to some romantic illusions.
Not so much lately but a few years back you'd hear interviews with representatives of the sex industry, workers not pimps.  They were pretty clear that illegality made things worse for them.  Beatings, police harrasment/corruption, STDs, pimps, safety, income, everything is worse for them if it is illegal.  Laws don't make it go away, they increase the hurt.

[Sandra Craft]

It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.

And if they have other choices but prefer to sell sex?  My problem is that "demeaning", "losing yourself", etc. can be said of a lot of jobs, including jobs that a hooker may have left in preference for commodity sex, as they call it.  I have no problem with getting emotionally damaged people the help they need to pull themselves together and make a good life of their choice, but I also have no problem if that choice is selling sex and I think the work would be a lot less dangerous if it were legal.

[The Magic Pudding]

This thread probably should be split before we get put in the derail thread.

[Anne D.]

It says A LOT about a society when these people think they have NO OTHER choice.

And if they have other choices but prefer to sell sex?  My problem is that "demeaning", "losing yourself", etc. can be said of a lot of jobs, including jobs that a hooker may have left in preference for commodity sex, as they call it.  I have no problem with getting emotionally damaged people the help they need to pull themselves together and make a good life of their choice, but I also have no problem if that choice is selling sex and I think the work would be a lot less dangerous if it were legal.

I agree, I think. I'm of two minds. I would hope that legalizing it, or better yet, regulating it, would do something to stem human trafficking. From what I've read, worldwide the number of sex workers who are basically slaves (some of them have been essentially kidnapped from their home countries and told they had a legitimate job waiting for them overseas) far outnumbers the number who have "chosen" the occupation. Maybe with regulation, there would be enough people who "chose" to be prostitutes (even if it was just the least crappy among other crappy choices) that the number of people kidnapped and literally forced into prostitution would be fewer. I don't know, though, maybe legalization would not have that large an impact on human trafficking.

(Sorry, just saw your post, Pudding.)

[Sandra Craft]

I don't know, though, maybe legalization would not have that large an impact on human trafficking.

Which is illegal all on its own anyway.

[The Magic Pudding]

(Sorry, just saw your post, Pudding.)

That's fine, I wasn't aiming to tell anyone what to do, I'm not a strict on topic person anyway.  

Causes
There are many causes of human trafficking to Australia. Project Respect argues that the demand for trafficked women in Australia is fueled by: 1) a lack of women in Australia prepared to do prostitution; 2) 'customer' demand for women seen as compliant; 3) 'customer' demand for women who they can be violent towards; and 4) racialized ideas that Asian women have certain qualities, for example that they are more compliant and will accept higher levels of violence.

Prostitution is mostly legal is Aus so this should increase the local supply reducing the demand described in point 1 above.
I do support basic social security support so people don't have to resort to such things.

[Sweetdeath]

My thoughts are, it shouldn't be illegal, because in a sense you are telling someone what to do with their own body, BUT it shouldn't be encouraged in any way.

I think.it should be legal and regulated, though honestly more community services should provide help for these people .

I am personally disgusted at the thought of one selling their body. And even more appauled at anyone WILLING to pay a stranger for sex.... I mean, that is low. Leaving out   love or romance, you are allowing a total stranger to touch you. It's just...ugh.. ... Seems so completely dehumanizing......

[Stevil]

Adults can decide for themselves if they want to pay for services and adults can decide for themselves if they will provide certain services for a price.
I can't think of a valid reason why prostitution should be illegal.
Society can function perfectly well without a law prohibiting prostitution, therefore we don't need a government unnecessarily restricting adults from making these decisions for themselves.

[Too Few Lions]

Adults can decide for themselves if they want to pay for services and adults can decide for themselves if they will provide certain services for a price.
I can't think of a valid reason why prostitution should be illegal.
Society can function perfectly well without a law prohibiting prostitution, therefore we don't need a government unnecessarily restricting adults from making these decisions for themselves.

yeah, I've got to agree with you Stevil, and with BCE. I've done a few shop jobs before, and they was pretty damn degrading, and I consider my job now to be prostitution of sorts. I've got no interest in it, I give my time up for money. If I was single and could get paid for having sex I'd certainly consider it, but women generally don't have to pay for sex, they can just go out and get it for free if they want it, so it's unlikely I could make any money as a straight guy. I've had quite a few one night stands in the past, and have never found having sex with a stranger to be 'dehumanizing' in any way shape or form. It's been good fun every time, you don't need romance or love to have good sex (well I don't anyway).

while there are obviously women working in the sex industry in awful conditions and some against their will (which would be illegal in any 'job'), there are also women charging £500 or £1000 an hour, the latter certainly aren't being exploited in any way shape or form. If I was a pretty woman and could make that kind of money I'd certainly consider it.

I would think legalizing prostitution would make it safer for everyone, particularly for prostitutes, and hopefully prevent some from being exploited quite so much by pimps and other forms of procurers

[Asmodean]

Penn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.

[Davin]

Penn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.

I think one of the best arguments I saw on that episode was something like, "why is it illegal to charge for something that's perfectly legal to give away for free?"

[Ali]

Penn and Teller, they did a fair episode about this in their Bullshit show.

I think one of the best arguments I saw on that episode was something like, "why is it illegal to charge for something that's perfectly legal to give away for free?"

And that's the thing - it's so weird to me that really what the government is writing laws about is motivation.  We can have sex with any other consenting adult that we want for any reason that we want...except money?  What?

I do think that situations where people are forced into prostitution are completely awful and need to be stopped.  But let's say that a person says "I like to have sex, I don't feel like getting a nine to five, and I think that being a prostitute would suit me just fine."  Well, I think that person should be allowed to do it.