i am a born again christian

[angelosergipe]

hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian. i would like to share
my belief with who ever wants to know better the christian faith. i am not here to try to convert anyone , because, this is a personal decision, but to explain issues, that many of you might have pre judgement and not a comprehensive knowledge. I intend to respect anyone's convictions here, and expect the same of you.

So let me make my first question. Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?

[Will]

I am an atheist because there is no evidence to suggest the supernatural is anything but fiction. I don't really have a problem with other people believing in fiction, to each their own, but I've found that a more realistic and reasonable perception of the world is a more healthy way to live. I can't provide evidence that god doesn't exist, but that fact in and of itself proves reasonably that certain belief in god is illogical. I can easily demonstrate that evidence presented that god does exist is incorrect, and that ideas that spring from the theisticâ€"6,000 year old earth, intelligent design, etc.â€"not only are incorrect, but present a clear and present threat to scientific advancement as they only require their own personal interpretation of ancient religious texts for evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

[tomday]

hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian. i would like to share
my belief with who ever wants to know better the christian faith. i am not here to try to convert anyone , because, this is a personal decision, but to explain issues, that many of you might have pre judgement and not a comprehensive knowledge. I intend to respect anyone's convictions here, and expect the same of you.

So let me make my first question. Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?

Angelo.... a very familiar sounding name!!  maybe you might consider re-registering with an alternative name if you want to be taken as a serious debator in an atheist forum?

In answer to your first question: our 'evidence' that what you refer to as your 'god' does not exist is simply the lack of any evidence at all that he/she/it does.  

In return, let me put my first question to you: Do you believe in leprechauns?  If you do, tell me what evidence you have; If you do not, please tell me what evidence you have that leprechauns do not exist.
 
I am advised that thousands of Irish men have seen leprechauns on Saturday nights, but have not been told of any of them having seen your 'god'; given that most Irish are catholic with a direct link to Mr G and his 'holy mother', I am surprised that he/she/it allows the leprechauns to steal the limelight.

[SteveS]

Hi angelosergipe!

Why are you atheist, and what evidence do you have to claim, God does not exist ?

Okay, 2 part question.

Part 1) I'm an atheist because I do not believe the religious claims about the existence of a god, heaven, hell, spirits, karma, afterlife, souls, etc.  In none of these cases has any argument been presented to me that seems sound.  None of these claims are believable to me either on the basis that they don't make sense or that there is no compelling evidence to support the claim.  Hence I am an atheist.

Part 2) I do not need evidence that god does not exist in order to not believe that he does.  To explain this further, I also do not have any evidence that god does exist.  Without this evidence, why would I believe god exists?  If I don't believe god exists, then I am an atheist.  Why?  Because I don't believe.  Simple.  The word "atheist" is a negative definition: it means "not a theist".  The theist makes a claim, "god or gods exist"; an "atheist" is defined as a person who rejects that claim.  The atheist may reject the claim either because he believes it to be false (there are no gods) -or- because he believes it to be unknown (there may or may not be any gods, but the claim put forward by the theist is without reason and/or evidence, so I reject this claim and fail to believe it on the grounds that the matter remains unknown).  This second form is usually termed 'agnostic atheism' or 'weak atheism'.  It is how I would describe myself.

This is a simple point, but one that is often misunderstood about atheism.  The problem with requiring evidence for the non-existence of things becomes apparent as soon as you change the subject from the god of the bible to something else.  For example: what evidence can you present that Thor does not exist?  What evidence can you present that the 'Flying Purple People Eater' does not exist?  Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. etc.  Yet without positive evidence of the non-existence of these things - do you believe they exist?  This is the problem.  If we make our default behavior to believe in anything that we can't positively disprove, we're going to have to accept all sorts of silly beliefs.  Isn't it better to only believe in things that we have a reason to believe in?  Not just believe in everything that can't be positively disproven?

[angelosergipe]

most have said : there is no evidence to say God does exist. I don't agree categorically. First evidence God exists is creation.

Live can come only from live. DNA has a Code. Codification means there is something complex and organized, and there must be a intelligent mind behind it, to codify it.

Since science generally agrees that the universe had a beginning ( the second law of thermodynamics also reforces this claim ), there was someone, or something, that started the whole process. Otherwise, nothing would have appeard.

The bible. it is impossible, that e genious mind simply invented the bible, and it is all fantasy. Archaeology confirms that the events, and places mentioned in the bible, existed.

The scientific correctness of the bible text.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1348.htm

1. Jeremiah 31:35-36--"Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day, and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night...'If this fixed order departs from before Me,' declares the Lord, 'then the offspring of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever'" (NASB). When I was a kid I remember thinking it was amazing how the planets all stayed in their orbits. The orbits of the moon and planets are so constant that eclipses can be predicted with great accuracy.

Profecies :  over 1000 prophecies were made in the bible, and many fullfilled already, and many are in the way to be fullfilled. just see israel, that is a nation again. something, predicted in the bible a view thousend years ago.

Tesimonies : millions of people all over the world have been transformed and blessed by the message of the gospel. and inumerous can tell how God did interveen in their lives.

[Tom62]

Maybe you should read some of the threads posted before on this website, then you might see that what you are telling is nothing new and has been refuted already hundreds of time.

[Will]

Refuted successfully, I might add. Jeez, I myself could take apart each of these... but I already have. Ad nauseam.

Frankly, it frightens me that people can so easily suspend their reason to accommodate such fictions.

[Jesster85]

I'll go ahead and give my answer. Do you really believe that  the only reason there are Atheists are because we have never heard about god? I was raised baptist so I know what religion has to say.

I stopped believing in god when I realised how much I disagreed with what the church had to say. I can not get behind a god that is intolerant of his own creation. When I was younger and went to church I was only shown the nice bits of the bible. It wasn't until I started reading the other parts that I saw how terrible that book is.

And look Christians make up around 90% of the country. Please leave our very small percentage alone.

[Will]

most have said : there is no evidence to say God does exist. I don't agree categorically. First evidence God exists is creation.

You're not using scientific terms already causes problems with your case. If you mean the source of life on Earth, then we already have many wonderful theories, each with evidence. Some of that evidence is undeniable, none of it has anything to do with a mythological entity.

Live can come only from live. DNA has a Code. Codification means there is something complex and organized, and there must be a intelligent mind behind it, to codify it.

Life can come from non-life, in fact. While I don't imagine googling "origin of life" is particularly difficult, nor is going to science class at school, I will briefly explain some evidence:
- The Miller-Urey experiment in the 1950s demonstrated how simply combining gasses present several billion years ago on earth,  water (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen (H2), could create organic amino acids. This is proof positive of organic compounds from non-life.
- After WW2, scientist Sidney W. Fox studies spontaneous formation of peptides from amino acids (like those amino acids created from inorganic elements above). He was able to demonstrate that peptides could be formed by those amino acids spontaneously.
- Peptides and amino acids can catalyze aldol reactions, some of which can yield sugars. This can be a metabolic cycle.

Bam. Life.

Since science generally agrees that the universe had a beginning ( the second law of thermodynamics also reforces this claim ), there was someone, or something, that started the whole process. Otherwise, nothing would have appeard.

'Science' does not generally agree that the universe had a beginning. The Big Bang theory, the most prevalent theory of the current incarnation of the universe, does not necessarily require an absolute beginning. Some scientists believe that the universe had a beginning, an other scientists like myself disagree. Each side does have some evidence, fortunately, but none of it has anything at all to do with mythological figures. Even if the universe had a beginning, and we weren't able to explain it, reasonably, god would still be the least likely possibility. Why? God, according to most religious texts, exists outside any understandable rule of science. That automatically make him/her/it the most complex and thus least likely answer to any scientific question.

lThe bible. it is impossible, that e genious mind simply invented the bible, and it is all fantasy. Archaeology confirms that the events, and places mentioned in the bible, existed.

Just like events from literally every mythology on Earth have some historical reference. This is simply because the authors wrote in actual occurrences for credibility. If I were to write a bible which included my full understanding of human history (which considering I'm a history buff, would be extensive), would that make it true? Obviously not as I myself would be making it up.

The scientific correctness of the bible text.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1348.htm

1. Jeremiah 31:35-36--"Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day, and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night...'If this fixed order departs from before Me,' declares the Lord, 'then the offspring of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever'" (NASB). When I was a kid I remember thinking it was amazing how the planets all stayed in their orbits. The orbits of the moon and planets are so constant that eclipses can be predicted with great accuracy.

Astronomy predates Christianity by thousands of years. The Indians were aware of a heliocentric universe thousands of years prior to the supposed birth of Jesus of Nazareth. It's not a prophecy if it's already been discovered.

Profecies :  over 1000 prophecies were made in the bible, and many fullfilled already, and many are in the way to be fullfilled. just see israel, that is a nation again. something, predicted in the bible a view thousend years ago.

Many? How many and which? I'd like to be able to refute them each for you.

Tesimonies : millions of people all over the world have been transformed and blessed by the message of the gospel. and inumerous can tell how God did interveen in their lives.

Millions of people are also made happy by Marijuana. Do you worship cannabis?

[myleviathan]

"and what evidence do you have to claim..."

I won't get into the details of this argument, but I do have something to say. The burden of proof is on you, man! Atheists claim there is no God based on the fact that He's nowhere to be found. Any relationship Christians claim with the almighty is imaginative at best. If we're supposed to have an intimate relationship with Jesus, then we should be able to call him on the phone or have lunch, you know?

I am an atheist primarily because it makes sense, not because anyone has specific proof. What’s more likely: that a man rose from the dead, or that somebody made it up? People like to make up spectacular and meaningful religious stories. They have done it for thousands of years. And if one religious narrative is made one up then it’s entirely possible they are all made up. Atheism, voila!

I used to be a Christian. In fact I was a Christian for the first 24 years of my life. I was the president of a high school Christian club, and also at my university. I many times considered ministry as a profession. I was tired of processing every sensory observation through my Christian filter. I would try and render every idea to the collective Christian world view. I realized how much richer life is when you don’t have to make sense of it through the pages of an ancient book. How boring it became, and how liberating it was when I finally just let go!

And by the way, you can't verify something you got out of the Bible with some other part of the Bible.

Good day!      

[Squid]

Live can come only from live. DNA has a Code. Codification means there is something complex and organized, and there must be a intelligent mind behind it, to codify it.

It's like I'm having a flashback...

[tomday]

quote from Angel..etc.: "Live can come only from live. DNA has a Code. Codification means there is something complex and organized, and there must be a intelligent mind behind it, to codify it."

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!  Angel.. if you really want to continue these  arguments, please post something that we have not seen time and time before.  Not only is this clear plagiarism of another deluded individual who uses a similar posting name in atheist forums, but even the spelling mistakes are retained!  
Plagiarism has truly come of age with 'select-copy-paste!

[rdm]

hi all

my name is angelo. i am a born again evangelical christian.

Surely, anyone who claims to be a Christian on the 'net cannot be one, if it is true that Jesus said that "you will know them by their fruits". So anything you write cannot be supposed to be a Christian argument.

[Squid]

Angelo, would you happen to be in Brazil?

[Bella]

First evidence God exists is creation.

Live can come only from live. DNA has a Code. Codification means there is something complex and organized, and there must be a intelligent mind behind it, to codify it.

No.

Really, who came up with this argument? It's ridiculous and I'm tired of hearing it. Saying how God exists because everything is "put together so perfectly" as if it's all so common sense and scientific and then turning around and saying the only reason for the IMPERFECT parts (e.g.; the pain of childbirth, birth defects and natural disasters)are because of Satan, that the universe was created in 7 days (Newsflash: The earth is billions of years old. Not thousands... BILLIONS), and that one day Jesus is going to come to earth to wield his magical powers is just absurd.

1. Jeremiah 31:35-36--"Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day, and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night...'If this fixed order departs from before Me,' declares the Lord, 'then the offspring of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever'" (NASB).

Please tell me you're joking! Oh yes, the Bible is sooo scientific. Look, it says that there's sun during the day and there are moon and stars during night time! Oooh! That's so interesting! Good thing someone wrote that down. Oh, and speaking of your quote, here you go (from the King James version):
Jeremiah 31:35-17 - Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

First of all, if we lose the sun, moon, and stars, the people of Israel are not going to be the only DEAD PEOPLE. Oh, but we have measured to the center of the earth now, haven't we? Oh, but Israel is still around, isn't it? Oh, and hell? Yea, it wasn't there.

Gensis 1:16 says, "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also." Yes, the moon... it's a great light... not a bunch of dirt reflecting the sun. Oh, and those stars? They're not also suns that are just further away... they're just the little sparkley things.

I could go on FOREVER about contradictions in the Bible. What about the Tower of Babel? Just before that story, Genesis 10:5 says, "By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations." It's supposed to be providing an explanation to the different races of people with their own languages throughout the world. But, in chapter 11, it says that everyone spoke the same language until God got all butthurt that they were uniting themselves by building a tower to heaven (apparently, our sky scrapers are okay though... and God must have moved his heaven somewhere else) so he caused them all to speak seperate languages to divide them.

Religions spend SO much time looking for little loopholes or coming up with explanations for things but can somehow turn a blind eye to how silly it all is. Tell me who came first... Adam or the animals? Because Gen 1:25,26,27 says that Adam was created AFTERWARDS and Gen 2:18,19 said that he was created BEFORE. I mean, it's right there in black and white, staring at you in the face.